Please keep the other posts on topic. Use this for talking about whatever you want to talk about.
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Santosh
5 years ago
Requesting more Hindutva people interviews. Also if possible, interviews with very short list of important questions completely to do with non-religious and national-development/upheaval-related stuff put to Vedantic Hindu religious heads or more realistically people affiliated with them in most important religious institutions from K’taka (Shringeri (Advaita), Udupi/Mantralayam (Dvaita)), TN (Shrirangam (Tenkalai Vishishtadvaitic Vaishnavism)/Kanchi (Vadakalai Vishishtadvaitic Vaishnavism)), etc.
I am generally very afraid of replying to you Dr. Razib Khan but could you also consider interviewing the extraordinarily interesting Abhijit Iyer-Mitra from twitter? In addition to having his exemplary achievements (he spent some time in jail – the old Indian freedom-fighter style not a common criminal style), he also seems to be an out homosexually oriented person (I will most definitely be extremely apologetic to everyone if this belief of mine happens to be wrong), so maybe he can enlighten us with regards to that problem too and how a Hinduism-based state tackles it. I am most certainly ready to hang my head in shame and with nothing but absolute happiness if this particular suggestion of mine is inappropriate but I also most certainly believe that interviewing Abhijit Iyer-Mitra for the podcast in any capacity really – as a general rightwing person, as a Hindutvavadi (actually I realise that I am not sure if the guy is actually a Hindutvavadi so I will be sincerely apologising if this belief of mine turns out to be a falsehood too), as a young, rising journalist, about his experiences in jail, etc. etc. About anything really, as this person is that interesting.
A recent critique of David Anthony’s work that all geneticist looking for a “massive migration” from steppe into South Asia ought to hear.
“my (Morris) own work suggests that Anthony is blithely assuming linguistic behaviour during the initial unobservable phase of this process which is diametrically opposed to the behaviour during the observable period. Furthermore, his linguistic archaeology of wheel words systematically ignores all comparative data from other language groups and as such, fails to address the likelihood that such words are nothing more than loanwords. The evident implication is that Indo-European is older.”
If the link does not work just search “Wrong horse? Wrong wheel? Wrong language?” on Youtube.
Demoule’s English is hard to understand. I could not hear much about genetics in spite of what the title of his talk says. Around 8:14 he is saying something about the problems with male dominated migrations. At the end he talks about skull shapes (16:35 min). Its worth checking out.
kashcit
5 years ago
From your comment on another site: “To be frank, it’s probably interesting, but the quality of insight is just lower on a substantive scale.” I think it might help if you sent some important questions in advance to podcast guests.
we tend to do that as it is.
I haven’t done a podcast for a few weeks but it’s interesting that the dense informative Browncasts (Numismatics, Sanskrit) don’t go viral as much as the Masalacasts.
I think it might help if you sent some important questions in advance to podcast guests.
i use outlines. it doesn’t matter. it’s just the nature of talking. it’s slow transmission of data compared to text and is less structured. i’m not criticizing the guests, i’m criticizing the medium.
that being said, podcasts are interesting as a way to whet peoples’ appetites.
so i was gchatting with a hindu nationalist friend of mine (he is a friend IRL). and i asked him if he would be surprised if i said i didn’t really care at all if all muslims in india became hindu (whatever that meant). since he knows me, he said, “no, not surprised.”
anyway, submitted for your amusement.
Prats
5 years ago
@Zac @Razib
If you want to discuss the state of education in India and the demographic divident/liability then you could invite the guy who runs this handle: https://twitter.com/learning_pt
He has done a lot of data-based work on it. The account is run by a group of interns but the main guy’s name is Prashant, I believe.
Saurav
5 years ago
Man in India the whole Citizenship amendment act is getting hot. Just like some white folks have this blindspot that brown people are NOT that racist , i had this view that mainland Indians are mostly racist towards North East folks. Got a rude awakening today.
She is restricting tribalism to religions & that defines her own tribalism. Point is tribalism is inescapable but rules or laws can be developed to define how individuals & groups can deal with each other fairly even with prejudices {Problem of modern world is all sides want to project the other side as prejudiced while retaining the tag of fairness for themselves thus no side wants to admit to their own prejudices}.
The real failure of modernity lies in the fact that in it’s endeavor to defeat tribalism the modern tribes took over & not only that in their belief that they cherished diversity they actually started the biggest homogenization project via big govt.’s & large multinationals.
Back at the turn of this century, my friends reported an unpleasant (possibly racist) incident when slurs based on skin color were thrown at them by locals during a visit to Sikkim. There was also a hint that the locals specifically didn’t care for people from Delhi. (Probably because of how many Delhi people treat northeasterners; word gets back.)
Vijay
5 years ago
Razib:
Two questions; is the book “which of us are Aryans” really being published with Romila Thapar? Iwas rejected by Amazon India when I tried to buy that. Amazon India took my money but later rejected the sale as book not ready.
Second, on the comment on people who have the smallest steppe fraction. You said the Munda, but the people from Computational Biology Group, IBM – Thomas J. Watson Research Center, New York seem to think that “Paliyan, Pulayar, and Kadar” are the best representatves of zero-steppe population in India. They are hill tribe foragers, and described in
“Population Differentiation of Southern Indian Male Lineages Correlates with Agricultural Expansions Predating the Caste System”
Two questions; is the book “which of us are Aryans” really being published with Romila Thapar? Iwas rejected by Amazon India when I tried to buy that. Amazon India took my money but later rejected the sale as book not ready.
the publishing date is for spring. but physical copies are already out there. seen pictures (i think they sent mine to the wrong address, i got an email from my old unviersity about a booklike package)
Second, on the comment on people who have the smallest steppe fraction. You said the Munda, but the people from Computational Biology Group, IBM – Thomas J. Watson Research Center, New York seem to think that “Paliyan, Pulayar, and Kadar” are the best representatves of zero-steppe population in India. They are hill tribe foragers, and described in
in this field don’t quote a 2012 paper unless you know the field. most, including priya’s good paper from that period, have been superseded.
the munda are not good exemplars cuz they have lots of east asian. but the latest work by the reich group, and earlier stuff, indicates they’re really really enrichedf or AASI. the reich group hypothesizes it’s cuz they two dollops of AASI.
1) from ma pulliyar-like group
2) from an east asian group (austroastiatic) which mixed with NE aasi (or australo-melanesian types in se asia) before mixing with #1
Santosh
5 years ago
Oh wow, please also consider inviting the author of the Manasataramgini blog and also similar others from twitter. Those are like very knowledgeable and unspeakably extraordinarily brilliant individuals when it comes to Classical Hinduism.
(I am officially being very drawn to the concept of Classical Hindu revival effected through the kind of religious upheavals being seen on the ground all over India now – my ritually-low-caste background and somewhat left-leaning family history and all that completely aside. The existing liberal program seems to be, as the commentator Hari suggested in the other thread, an essentially Christian program which tries to ban any normal discourse on subjects not to Christianity’s liking like (responsible) abortion, (responsible) eugenics, etc. in places where it has no business interfering, like China and India (I mean – the almost black-and-white nature of the abortion debate in the US seems really silly, and all the recent backlash regarding the Chinese gene-editing is really really outrageous). I am not suggesting that the liberal program did no good. It has done so much good to the world really. But Christian anxieties and obsessions are better injected into non-Christian systems only until a reasonable point and not any further. But anyway, what can an individual having a most-percentage tAmasika characteristics like me contribute to the Hindutva cause, I wonder.)
“But he holds on to a weird version of AIT (mind you, not AMT) that assumes invasion dates that even predates”conventional” AIT dates. I think he holds on to some Tilak school of thought which purports that Aryans came from cold, Arctic-like climates.”
“Today, I find sometimes on the internet that it is some stray Tamil brahmins (both Iyers and Iyengars, one example being Kalavai Venkat), who are not leftists but fervent religious Hindus, who promote the idea that the Aryans were a race of people who invaded India from some ultimate homeland situated far outside India, and that they themselves are scions of the invader race.”
Milan Todorovic
5 years ago
Comments appears very slowly with a delay, sometimes appear and quickly disappear. Is there some situation over there, a strict control as a consequence of Bregzit, patronage still under threshold or just ‘work gently and take it easy’ by the moderators?
Mayuresh Madhav Kelkar
5 years ago
India- The country that isn’t.
Thought provoking article by Joseph T. Nooney aka Joe Agneya
Requesting more Hindutva people interviews. Also if possible, interviews with very short list of important questions completely to do with non-religious and national-development/upheaval-related stuff put to Vedantic Hindu religious heads or more realistically people affiliated with them in most important religious institutions from K’taka (Shringeri (Advaita), Udupi/Mantralayam (Dvaita)), TN (Shrirangam (Tenkalai Vishishtadvaitic Vaishnavism)/Kanchi (Vadakalai Vishishtadvaitic Vaishnavism)), etc.
reached out to https://twitter.com/realitycheckind
hasn’t responded.
What was the problem with Bharot’s link re aDNA map under ‘On the difficulties…’?
asshole. i don’t like him. he says stupid things constantly…but i think he’s not stupid. so that’s worse!
also pubs without context are useless. speaking as someone who knows the literature in that area.
I am generally very afraid of replying to you Dr. Razib Khan but could you also consider interviewing the extraordinarily interesting Abhijit Iyer-Mitra from twitter? In addition to having his exemplary achievements (he spent some time in jail – the old Indian freedom-fighter style not a common criminal style), he also seems to be an out homosexually oriented person (I will most definitely be extremely apologetic to everyone if this belief of mine happens to be wrong), so maybe he can enlighten us with regards to that problem too and how a Hinduism-based state tackles it. I am most certainly ready to hang my head in shame and with nothing but absolute happiness if this particular suggestion of mine is inappropriate but I also most certainly believe that interviewing Abhijit Iyer-Mitra for the podcast in any capacity really – as a general rightwing person, as a Hindutvavadi (actually I realise that I am not sure if the guy is actually a Hindutvavadi so I will be sincerely apologising if this belief of mine turns out to be a falsehood too), as a young, rising journalist, about his experiences in jail, etc. etc. About anything really, as this person is that interesting.
Wrong horse? Wrong wheel? Wrong language?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XQZEWhnzVM
European Association of Archaeologists
A recent critique of David Anthony’s work that all geneticist looking for a “massive migration” from steppe into South Asia ought to hear.
“my (Morris) own work suggests that Anthony is blithely assuming linguistic behaviour during the initial unobservable phase of this process which is diametrically opposed to the behaviour during the observable period. Furthermore, his linguistic archaeology of wheel words systematically ignores all comparative data from other language groups and as such, fails to address the likelihood that such words are nothing more than loanwords. The evident implication is that Indo-European is older.”
If the link does not work just search “Wrong horse? Wrong wheel? Wrong language?” on Youtube.
Another one in this presentation series.
The new genetic narrative of the Kurgan hypothesis: Some problems
European Association of Archaeologists
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyfKsTm3X9s
Demoule’s English is hard to understand. I could not hear much about genetics in spite of what the title of his talk says. Around 8:14 he is saying something about the problems with male dominated migrations. At the end he talks about skull shapes (16:35 min). Its worth checking out.
From your comment on another site: “To be frank, it’s probably interesting, but the quality of insight is just lower on a substantive scale.” I think it might help if you sent some important questions in advance to podcast guests.
we tend to do that as it is.
I haven’t done a podcast for a few weeks but it’s interesting that the dense informative Browncasts (Numismatics, Sanskrit) don’t go viral as much as the Masalacasts.
Zack,
Numismatics, Sanskrit -those two are my favorite podcasts !
I think it might help if you sent some important questions in advance to podcast guests.
i use outlines. it doesn’t matter. it’s just the nature of talking. it’s slow transmission of data compared to text and is less structured. i’m not criticizing the guests, i’m criticizing the medium.
that being said, podcasts are interesting as a way to whet peoples’ appetites.
so i was gchatting with a hindu nationalist friend of mine (he is a friend IRL). and i asked him if he would be surprised if i said i didn’t really care at all if all muslims in india became hindu (whatever that meant). since he knows me, he said, “no, not surprised.”
anyway, submitted for your amusement.
@Zac @Razib
If you want to discuss the state of education in India and the demographic divident/liability then you could invite the guy who runs this handle:
https://twitter.com/learning_pt
He has done a lot of data-based work on it. The account is run by a group of interns but the main guy’s name is Prashant, I believe.
Man in India the whole Citizenship amendment act is getting hot. Just like some white folks have this blindspot that brown people are NOT that racist , i had this view that mainland Indians are mostly racist towards North East folks. Got a rude awakening today.
Never forget about ‘Tribalism’.
Elaborated answer –
https://thewire.in/video/watch-i-you-turned-out-to-be-just-like-us-equally-stupid
She is restricting tribalism to religions & that defines her own tribalism. Point is tribalism is inescapable but rules or laws can be developed to define how individuals & groups can deal with each other fairly even with prejudices {Problem of modern world is all sides want to project the other side as prejudiced while retaining the tag of fairness for themselves thus no side wants to admit to their own prejudices}.
The real failure of modernity lies in the fact that in it’s endeavor to defeat tribalism the modern tribes took over & not only that in their belief that they cherished diversity they actually started the biggest homogenization project via big govt.’s & large multinationals.
Back at the turn of this century, my friends reported an unpleasant (possibly racist) incident when slurs based on skin color were thrown at them by locals during a visit to Sikkim. There was also a hint that the locals specifically didn’t care for people from Delhi. (Probably because of how many Delhi people treat northeasterners; word gets back.)
Razib:
Two questions; is the book “which of us are Aryans” really being published with Romila Thapar? Iwas rejected by Amazon India when I tried to buy that. Amazon India took my money but later rejected the sale as book not ready.
Second, on the comment on people who have the smallest steppe fraction. You said the Munda, but the people from Computational Biology Group, IBM – Thomas J. Watson Research Center, New York seem to think that “Paliyan, Pulayar, and Kadar” are the best representatves of zero-steppe population in India. They are hill tribe foragers, and described in
“Population Differentiation of Southern Indian Male Lineages Correlates with Agricultural Expansions Predating the Caste System”
Two questions; is the book “which of us are Aryans” really being published with Romila Thapar? Iwas rejected by Amazon India when I tried to buy that. Amazon India took my money but later rejected the sale as book not ready.
the publishing date is for spring. but physical copies are already out there. seen pictures (i think they sent mine to the wrong address, i got an email from my old unviersity about a booklike package)
Second, on the comment on people who have the smallest steppe fraction. You said the Munda, but the people from Computational Biology Group, IBM – Thomas J. Watson Research Center, New York seem to think that “Paliyan, Pulayar, and Kadar” are the best representatves of zero-steppe population in India. They are hill tribe foragers, and described in
in this field don’t quote a 2012 paper unless you know the field. most, including priya’s good paper from that period, have been superseded.
the munda are not good exemplars cuz they have lots of east asian. but the latest work by the reich group, and earlier stuff, indicates they’re really really enrichedf or AASI. the reich group hypothesizes it’s cuz they two dollops of AASI.
1) from ma pulliyar-like group
2) from an east asian group (austroastiatic) which mixed with NE aasi (or australo-melanesian types in se asia) before mixing with #1
Oh wow, please also consider inviting the author of the Manasataramgini blog and also similar others from twitter. Those are like very knowledgeable and unspeakably extraordinarily brilliant individuals when it comes to Classical Hinduism.
(I am officially being very drawn to the concept of Classical Hindu revival effected through the kind of religious upheavals being seen on the ground all over India now – my ritually-low-caste background and somewhat left-leaning family history and all that completely aside. The existing liberal program seems to be, as the commentator Hari suggested in the other thread, an essentially Christian program which tries to ban any normal discourse on subjects not to Christianity’s liking like (responsible) abortion, (responsible) eugenics, etc. in places where it has no business interfering, like China and India (I mean – the almost black-and-white nature of the abortion debate in the US seems really silly, and all the recent backlash regarding the Chinese gene-editing is really really outrageous). I am not suggesting that the liberal program did no good. It has done so much good to the world really. But Christian anxieties and obsessions are better injected into non-Christian systems only until a reasonable point and not any further. But anyway, what can an individual having a most-percentage tAmasika characteristics like me contribute to the Hindutva cause, I wonder.)
Man now I also more completely realise how laughably unnecessary the entire Shabarimala fiasco is lol.
Did you get an e-mail from me?
Santhosh, you asked how you can contribute. You can be free!:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSRoFfBAzr4&t=497s
“Oh wow, please also consider inviting the author of the Manasataramgini blog and also similar others from twitter.”
Wonderful suggestion! It is like inviting the KKK/David Duke to speak for white people or Louis Farrakhan to speak for black people.
Kalavai Venkat: Sufficiently bigoted. Hates everybody but himself.
https://nileshoak.wordpress.com/2016/01/03/science-inference-rigor-ait-manasataramgini-self-goal/
“But he holds on to a weird version of AIT (mind you, not AMT) that assumes invasion dates that even predates”conventional” AIT dates. I think he holds on to some Tilak school of thought which purports that Aryans came from cold, Arctic-like climates.”
http://talageri.blogspot.com/2016/05/normal-0-false-false-false-en-us-x-none.html
“Today, I find sometimes on the internet that it is some stray Tamil brahmins (both Iyers and Iyengars, one example being Kalavai Venkat), who are not leftists but fervent religious Hindus, who promote the idea that the Aryans were a race of people who invaded India from some ultimate homeland situated far outside India, and that they themselves are scions of the invader race.”
Comments appears very slowly with a delay, sometimes appear and quickly disappear. Is there some situation over there, a strict control as a consequence of Bregzit, patronage still under threshold or just ‘work gently and take it easy’ by the moderators?
India- The country that isn’t.
Thought provoking article by Joseph T. Nooney aka Joe Agneya
http://devasurah.blogspot.com/2018/01/is-india-country-introduction.html