Brown Pundits

Amey:   The Brown Pundits Browncast. Hello, everyone. This is Amay from Brown Pundits Browncast. And today we have Omer Bhai, who is our grandfather of Brown pundits. And we also have Kushal Mehra joining us from Canada. 
Amey:   And we are going to talk about Khalistan issue in Canada. And there have been, so we are recording this on November the 4th, and there have been recent attacks on Canadian Hindu temples. And for us sitting here in California, it's, you know, we are close enough to Canada, but it seems a whole another country. So to get a bit more understanding of the issue, we are, yeah, Kushal, you know, could you introduce yourself real quick for some of our listeners who may not have come across your work? Kushal is a prolific podcaster. 
Amey:   You might have seen him on Sham Sharma show. He runs his podcast, Karvak. Karvak. Karvak, sorry. I, my bad. 
Amey:   The Karvak podcast. And as well as, you know, he's the native Indian Canadian expert. So you will see him on all the Indian news channels whenever Canada comes up. So say, without further ado, Kishore, could you please explain to us what's been going on up north? 
Kushal:   Oh my God, it's just been so crazy. As if, you know, I think Justin Trudeau found out I decided to move half of the year to Canada And he's like, let's fight with India. You know, that was the time. Because sometimes I feel last year I came, he started some Panga with India. This year I've come, he's exceeded all proportions of Panga with India. 
Kushal:   I have no clue what, what, so, so, so we, I don't know where we start. Listen, the Indian problem with Canada goes all the way back during, you know, those horrific days in India, in Punjab, where we saw a lot of blood was spilled, whether Hindu, Sikh, Muslim, Christian, all Punjabis, Punjabi blood was spilled. And then it led to Operation Blue Star. And we had, you know, a lot of people say, Arey Bhindra wale took 
Kushal:   the guns inside. Yeah, I know. Maybe we had no option, but you know, GBS Sidhu's book shows that we did have other options and Indira Gandhi ignored those options and Indira Gandhi chose a very specific option. So, I mean, I, as a Punjabi can never forgive Indira Gandhi for that. I mean, I've always said that. 
Kushal:   I understand. I hate Bindrawale and I understand that the state had to go in, but there were other ways that were suggested and Sidhu Saab has, and you know, something very interesting. The moment Sidhu Saab came up with that book, we changed the service rules after that. I'm not even making this up. The service rules for former employees to write books were changed after Sidhu Saab wrote this book. 
Kushal:   So luckily Sidhu Saab's book came out. But now we will never have the situation where you know another former RNAW officer or any security apparatus person will come out and fill the beans. So yeah so we have that and then from that onwards we have you know the Khalistanis coming to Canada 
Kushal:   and obviously we had the Air India bombing and now what has happened is that modern day Khalistani culture of Canada is no longer about separatism. I think separatism is a veneer. Honestly, Even they know, these Khalistanis know that it's not going to happen in India. There are no takers in India. You know, Amritpal and all of these people, you know, winning an odd seed here and there. 
Kushal:   I mean, it doesn't matter. These things, like for example, you know, he just made a video that Joker, you know, sitting in America, Guru Patwan Singh Pannu, he said, you know, don't let Hindu celebrate Diwali. I mean, Hindu and Sikh both were celebrating Diwali together in Punjab and Guru Patwan Singh Pannu was basically, you know, scratching his head and he must be going in Punjabi. Nobody listens to me. You know, nobody listens to me. 
Amey:   My Punjabi is a little weak, but 
Kushal:   I'll do the translation. Don't worry. 
Amey:   Interesting thing was I did actually see his video in preparation for this podcast. And if you listen carefully, right? Like he says, Koi Hindu ko aatish bhaazi nahi karne dena. Right? So, you know, the charitable interpretation could be, he was just concerned about the AQI in Delhi. 
Amey:   You 
Kushal:   know, so, 
Amey:   you know, perhaps that was really what that video was all about. 
Kushal:   So are you saying he's a member of Aam Aadmi Party? 
Amey:   I mean, that is the most natural home for them in India. So, you know, yeah. 
Kushal:   So, so, so we have, 
Dr. Ali:   this you're talking about the Khalistanis in Canada and how they have become a problem and will become a problem for Canada itself. But isn't it sort of more broadly and now an issue that will involve become like a Sikh versus Hindu issue, because I know there were more Sikhs inside the Diwali than outside, but those Sikhs are not the ones who are going to speak up. There is a public sort of taboo on going against them in the Sikh community and you can see it in action here in California. I know several Sikhs who are not Khalistan supporters in private, but would never say this in public anymore. So there is a real community issue also. 
Kushal:   Yeah, I accept that. In fact, I'll tell you a story. When in 2022, when I came back to Canada for the first time again, after 8 years of not coming to North America at all, I didn't come to America or Canada. And when I came, I, you know, after a long time, I met Balraj Deol for the first time in my life. I used to read him. 
Kushal:   I knew what Khabarnama was, what Balraj Deol was, you know, the, 1 of the greatest Indo-Canadian journalists. 
Amey:   Who Balraj Deol is? 
Kushal:   Yeah. So 
Kushal:   he is 1 of the greatest Indo-Canadian journalists. He ran a Punjabi weekly called Khabarnama for 21 plus years. It only stopped after COVID hit. He just could not sustain it. He was brutally attacked by Khalistanis after a while when they attacked Ujjal Dossanjh, the former premier of the British Columbia. 
Kushal:   And I distinctly remember meeting Balraj sir and he told me, you know, son, it's time to fight the Hindus for the Sikhs. These were his exact words. For the Sikhs, you have to fight now. These people are troubling us a lot. 
Kushal:   Basically, he said, I have 
Kushal:   become an old man now. I can't do it now. Don't ask me to do it now. It's enough now. 
Kushal:   And it's time for you guys to step up. And listen, I think slowly but surely, our community will have to rise up for the good, decent Sikh community. And for example, the Sari Gurdwara, which Ujjwal Sir fought and fought and fought, And then until he just ran out of steam, and then the Khalistanis took over. These stories are there. 
Amey:   You had a documentary in 2007 or 2008 about the Baisakhi parade. And I feel like it was Balraj Deol and Ujjal Dosanjh, who were in that documentary. And I'll add the link in our show notes. So this has been, this is not a very recent flare up either. These people have been involved in talking about this issue and raising concerns for like 30-35 years almost now. 
Amey:   So 
Kushal:   yeah, so this is, the Hindu Sikh issue is not there. So even now, you know, look at the irony, whatever has gone down in the Hindu Sabha Mandir. You know, This is a pivotal community center in Brampton. 
Amey:   And Kushal, could you also describe like the incident and what precipitated? So yeah, we talked about the Pannoon video and what actually happened in Canada. 
Kushal:   So what happened was see, so In India, you know how though we have that system, right? Pehle, we used to have to fill this form on a monthly basis, the pension form, right? A lot of these people, right? Indian officials, we retired Indian officials who live here. So just for that, you know, facilitation, like the, the temples are large, right over here. 
Kushal:   So we can hold the government event in the temple. So the government was basically making them sign documents so that they can get their pension. They didn't have to come and sign their life certificate. They just said I am alive so give me my pension. Kind of a scenario. 
Kushal:   So these Muppets were protesting outside. So, you know, people from inside the temple went out and, you know, with folded hands requested them. That, we are paying the pension form, why are you doing this here? 
Kushal:   No, there is an Indian agent inside. Every person becomes an Indian agent. These people are crazy. So, they kept on doing it and then you know what they do is, wherever they go and protest, right? They use a microphone and speaker and then they start hurling abuses in Punjabi and Hindi. 
Kushal:   It gets awkward. They are crazy people. This, I mean, first time they requested, no 1 went then next time some other people came, they requested then what happened, young kids came and then young kids came, they took out their flags Bhagwa Jhanda and then they had a few Indian flags, 1 or 2, and then they started shouting counter slogans. The problem is the cops should have immediately created a perimeter, first of all. So I don't know how to explain this. 
Kushal:   So imagine this is the gate of the Hindu Sabha Mandir, okay? And this is the sidewalk outside this, then you have the road and there is another sidewalk across the road. Now, normally if the police had any sense, they would not have told them to stand here, right? The police is well within its law to tell them go across the road, all the way across the road, But the police also let them stay outside. So what does that tell you? 
Kushal:   The police also is actively, you know, in some way involved in this instigation now. And then these, these kids from the temple, listen, now people have had enough. They come everywhere and heckle. They come everywhere and heckle. And if the cops are not going to do anything, then people will protect themselves. 
Kushal:   And then these kids went and 
Kushal:   then the Khalistani, I have shared the videos, punches. Khalistani threw the first punch. And then that boy defended himself. And then the Khalistani started beating them up with sticks and they entered the temple premises. And I was going back home from GTA. 
Kushal:   I got a message, Kushal come back, come back, come back. I came back after roaming around. Then I reached the temple at around, see, all of this was done and dusted by 12-1 max. You know, everybody was then taken, escorted off by the cops and everything. By the time I came, there was, there were angry people over there. 
Kushal:   So I must have come around 4.45, 5. Then, you know, some of them were very angry outside. They were, you know, shouting slogans and all of that, like outside the gear, inside the parking lot, but outside the Mandir. Mandir ke bahar the, seedhi se jo chadte hain. And then I went inside and I calmed a few kids down. 
Kushal:   Then some of them just left. And then we had a giant meeting of, you know, probably the who's who of the Hindu community of Canada had come, at least as far as the GTA is concerned, you know, advocacy groups, the presidents or trustees of the temples, the Hindu Federation, and then, I mean, people were so angry, some people when they saw the 
Kushal:   leadership, they started beating the leader inside the temple, that all this has happened because of you, you guys, I am dead serious, I am telling you guys, I am dead serious, I mean, those leaders, the leaders have never experienced such verbal lashings in their lives. And I went very far, I spoke for 2 minutes, I realized that this is an uncle-aunty whatsapp group, I left from here and went ahead. I started talking to the kids around, you know, because I met 2 people who were beaten up by the Khalistan if I wanted to sit with them talk to them, you know console them key. They were very hurt Yeah, but yeah, I'm all over. It's a border. 
Kushal:   I'm a guy. I saw this economy. I got a Khalistan You know, I'm a romantic. I'll tell you I met a puja gonna at a movie. I'm a rhino So these kinds of things were there and then and then finally 
Amey:   these were the these were kids from India who were students or these were secondary? 
Kushal:   Yeah, yeah. See, try and understand what the Hindu Sabha Mandir means to Brampton. It lit. There are more Sikh people who come to the Hindu Sabha Mandir than the Hindus. They were trying to create a divide. 
Kushal:   They could not create a divide. No matter how hard they try, it is not possible for Hindus and Sikhs. Yes, it is not possible to go to the Gurudwara and 
Kushal:   shout out loud, But the overall understanding within the community has not gone anywhere. It hasn't gone here either. Despite many people thinking, it has gone. I can't speak for California. 
Amey:   I mean, yeah, and for our listeners, right, And I'm basing it from my experiences of Hindu temples in America. But to get the temple trustees involved, these are like some old foggies who are in their 70s and 80s, who came here 50 years ago, established some business, so they have some money. But these people are not, they probably are barely aware of who is the prime minister in India, let alone even be involved in anything politics, right? Like at least in America, the political involvement of Hindus is like, you know, you will have like Ro Khanna come to your temple in San Francisco Bay area and you'll have a photo op and that's the extent. So to get these people angry is, you know, that's quite an achievement because generally, at least in America, I have not seen this. 
Amey:   And up California, so the Hindus here, it's like something like half of American Hindus live here and I think the indian community in america is a lot more diverse you know we have we have people from andhra tamil nadu in in quite quite substantial numbers along 
Kushal:   with 
Dr. Ali:   interesting but the logic of these kinds of things is that it will whether you want to or not it will become like a bit of a communal issue right Where people will start to feel pressure to line up with their own community. 
Kushal:   No, brother Omar, it's not like that. Because in Sikhs and Hindus, especially in Hindus, I can say, there is a lot of love for Sikhs and a lot of reverence for the gurus. So how will it end? When the love for the gurus will not be left, how will it end? We will not leave the guru. 
Kushal:   Will we leave the guru? The guru is ours. 
Amey:   Umar to give you a perspective right of a Hindu who lives here, I have many Sikh friends from India who live here in San Francisco. And they don't feel comfortable going to some of the gurudwaras in the area. Like the 1 in Fremont in here in the Bay Area is a big Khalistani gurudwara. And my friend who grew up in, who's a Maharashtrian, actually, he's a Sikh guy from Aurangabad. And he was like, I have never seen this in a Gurdwara in India. 
Amey:   The Bhindrawale pictures and all the Bhai Shaheeds, like quote unquote. So, but that said, I have second generation Sikh friends here who are Americans and many of them, you know, their introduction to the Sikh culture was through the Khalsa camp. And many of them are not, I wouldn't quite say they're Kalistanis or what have you, but they do have some views that are clearly about India, especially, that are very colored by what they grew up listening to in these camps, right? So, yeah, So that thing is there, but I wouldn't quite say that. 
Dr. Ali:   My impression, this is just a distant impression. Obviously I've never been to India and don't know that many people in either the Hindu or the Sikh community. But in just sort of on general principles, the situation within India you're saying is completely fine. Everybody, there's no such movement, But it can't be completely fine if the SGPC is unable to push back at all against any Khalistani. I have never seen them do that. 
Dr. Ali:   So there must be something more than just, I think the state security apparatus sort of keeps a lid on things obviously. 
Kushal:   I mean, I'm Sorry, I don't buy that argument. That's like saying India is safe. But look, there was a car accident. I mean, it is never 0. See, these things, like what is the statistical significance of that? 
Dr. Ali:   But that's not a minor organization, right? That's the official orthodox. 
Kushal:   Who can the SGPC convince? You tell me who has been convinced 
Kushal:   by SGPC? 
Kushal:   If SGPC can do it, then everyone will be rich. You are the 1 who is saying that there is a lot of 
Kushal:   alcohol and chicken in Punjab. Who can SGPC control? You tell me who else has been controlled by SGPC? They keep climbing in their own branches. SGPC is like the version of Bajrang Dal, they go and say, hey you won't do this. 
Kushal:   Let them do what they want. Overall, there is nothing like that. We have relatives in Punjab, we don't know. We don't call our relatives, we don't talk to them. I don't think so. 
Kushal:   Canada is broken down as a society. 
Amey:   And for what it's worth, Omer in India, in Punjab is entirely run by Sikhs. It's like it's, it is a 
Kushal:   not by Sikhs, by Jats. 
Amey:   Exactly right. And I mean, There's a substantial Hindu presence in Punjab. But that if you look at the administration of that state, it's not quite, you know, there's like, I can't quite recall a Punjabi Hindu leader in like last 15-20 years at the very least, but I don't follow 
Kushal:   it as 
Amey:   closely as Kushal does. So he might. 
Kushal:   No, he won't be. And listen, I think Punjab is fine. Listen, you have to understand in the larger scheme of things, how many MPs come from Punjab? 10-12? They don't come more than that in our country. 
Kushal:   Punjab, politically, so much... And see, what happens is, Omar bhai is also Punjabi, so he'll understand, our nation is like that, we have to make more noise. I don't know, loudly, I don't know, loudly, we have to make so much noise, we have to have so much status. Punjab is at 19th in our country's GDP, We have to deal with Punjab, We have to deal with the economy of Punjab. We have to deal with many. 
Kushal:   The biggest problem of Punjab is the economy. The biggest problem of Punjab is not Khalistan. The economy of Punjab is a real concern for me. The agricultural patterns of Punjab, they are a real concern for me. Khalistan is not even in my top 10 concerns for Punjab right now. 
Kushal:   It is there, but it is completely well managed by the Indian state. Because, we should not underestimate the Indian state. What 
Dr. Ali:   do you think is the angle on the Canadian side? Why is Pierre Trudeau like this? Is it just vote bank politics? Or do they have some other strategic geopolitical whatever aim in view also? 
Kushal:   Maybe it could be both. 
Kushal:   See, we have to understand that by, by a significant means Canada is a vassal state of America. I mean, Canada keeps talking about foreign interference. The biggest foreign interference in Canada is American. Canada is literally a vassal state 
Dr. Ali:   of America. You can move the question to America. What is it that the Americans want? 
Kushal:   They want India to grow. They just don't want India to grow very fast. 
Amey:   So Kushal, I will steel man this, right? Because I am someone who is, you know, I'm like, I live in America and I've been here 17 years, right? And I have a green card. So on Twitter, I'm always getting called a CIA agent. But you know, I do feel like we should have good relations with America. 
Amey:   And like, we obviously have a partnership, and we don't need to be allies, you know, but, you know, having lived here, right, it's just not clear to me that Americans really think that much about India, but they do think more in the context of China, and especially Kalistan, like it's not something that, you know, and that America or CIA really has thought about in like 30, 40 years, right? In the 1980s, they did catch a few Khalistanis trying to blow up Air India planes. And they were, America has never, American governments of both parties have never like shied away from calling Kalistanis terrorists. Or if you look at New York Times, even New York Times in 1980s and 1990s would describe Kalistanis as like Sikh terrorists in India did blah, right? So, you know, it's to me that I'm willing to be like there could be, I'm not gonna say dismiss it right out of hand, but you know, like assuming it's America's hand, it ascribes a lot of competence to American, you know, the DC elites who are running this country. 
Amey:   And if you're looking at the results around the world, I don't think competence right now is the first thing that comes to my mind. So, you know, 
Kushal:   Yeah, but I think it would be rather naive to assume that the American state has no interest in meddling in Indian affairs. I mean, the way they have disastrously, you know, pushed Bangladesh into chaos. I mean, let's listen, I'm not saying America is what America is doing is 
Kushal:   good or bad. I mean, there is no debate on that because I believe foreign policy is very transactional. I mean, America is doing whatever America wants to do. But beyond a point where people misunderstand is they think all of it is American using Canadian Khalistanis. No, Canada has a giant problem. 
Kushal:   Canadian radicalism of second and third generation bachchas over here in the Jat community is very serious. And Canadian politicians are not taking it seriously because what I call, like Ujjal sahib on my podcast, he called them the Nijjar Gurdwaras. I call them the zombie Gurdwaras. Not all of them, the ones which are Khalistani. Like the zombie Gurdwaras are really brainwashing kids who are born here. 
Kushal:   Bhai, ye log ke naseeb hain ki India se log aare hain. Ye log ke naseeb hain ki Sikh log India se aate hain yaha pe and then normalize things immediately because war radicalized me with the way into a little bit. Pagala, okay. Well, as a or a, You're trying to understand. So even in America, you will see, 
Kushal:   you will see the radicalism is more in the Sikh community that is born in America. I must have now lost count of the amount of Sikh parents that have stopped sending their kids to Gurdwaras here. You are not sending your kids Umar bhai. And Umar bhai you are a Punjabi, you understand the importance of Gurdwara in a Punjabi's life, in a Sikh's life. If I tell you that I have got hundreds of such people who say that they don't send their kids to Gurdwaras. 
Kushal:   Gurudwaras are doing the same thing. So please try and understand that I'm not discounting the American angle. 
Dr. Ali:   Just to sort of play devil's advocate, if people are not sending their kids to the Gurudwaras, but do they have an alternative Gurudwara? Because if they don't, then they have already conceded the game to the people who are 
Kushal:   100% right. They have conceded the Gurdwaras. I have certainly seen in the last 3 years the attendance of the non-radicalized Sikh community attendance in temples has increased. And I think eventually, 
Kushal:   shabad kirtan kar sake aur hum amari pooja archana saath mein 
Kushal:   kar sake. But it is not 
Amey:   acceptable to the, what are they called? 
Kushal:   SGPC, wohi toh hai na yaar. SGPC waha pe fatwa nikal dega. Ye hi toh problem ho rahi hai. Nahi toh ye kap ka. 
Amey:   Sindhi Hindus used to keep it in their temples. 
Kushal:   No, no, they still keep it. 
Amey:   They do anything. 1 year ago, the Sindhis had to like, hand over their Guru Granth to some radicals. 
Kushal:   Radicals, saying nothing happens. It still happens. I am in Chembur, the whole Sindhi society is filled up there. 
Kushal:   What nonsense is this? Just watch the 
Kushal:   news of 4 people, nothing happens. Radicals are useless. 
Kushal:   I am in Chembur, it is full of Sindhi people. What nonsense is this? I live in the heart in Sindh, Bombay. All Sindhis are from there. So it's still the same. 
Kushal:   They ask only Nanak Devji and Granth Sahib. But yes, it is there. But my criticism of the Indian state is I don't know why they feel SGPC ko touch nahi karna chahiye. Mujhe nahi pata nahi all India Muslim personal law board ho gaya abhi SGPC. 
Dr. Ali:   Isn't it bigger than the all India Muslim personal law board in terms of what it does within the community? 
Kushal:   I'll tell you how it is. They come to the road to stop us. If someone stands in front of them, they don't understand. It's like when we drive in Bombay, the car goes like this and the stray dog on the road barks. It barks. 
Kushal:   If you stop the car, they get confused. What should I do? He has stopped the car. So, they get confused. If you stand in front of them, they don't know what to do. 
Kushal:   They get confused. Because, there is a law here. 
Dr. Ali:   You don't think it's a significant factoid that Sikhs in general are not willing to stand against them in public? The 
Kushal:   reason Sikhs are not willing to stand against them is because over the last 30 years, business has been very close to the community. So, even because of business loss, many people don't speak up. Hindus don't speak up for this. If you go to Surrey, all the businessmen work together, whether 
Kushal:   they are Khalistani or non-Khalistani. So no 1 says anything because they say that the business will go bad. 
Kushal:   So it has become a very big problem. 
Amey:   And Omar, right? Like I'm assuming like most, like, you know, I'm a Hindu here in California, but I go to temple like a couple of times a year and that's that, right? You know, it's, it's very hard to like, you know, it's the, the type of things these guys do, right? Like I have a question, they keep flying around the world. 
Kushal:   This is their job boss. They are paid to do this. And they get the work. 
Dr. Ali:   But who pays them? 
Kushal:   Oh, come on, sir. It's a big drug racket. Human trafficking. The Khalistan. We don't take money from you to run Khalistan. 
Kushal:   We run it ourselves. 
Kushal:   Pakistan is not giving us money. Khalistan has become self-sufficient. Pakistan is a self-sufficient movement. 
Kushal:   It is a self-sufficient movement. Pakistan does not need Khalistan. They do not want to make 
Kushal:   Khalistan in Pakistan. They won't make it in Lahore. They won't go there. They won't go to Kartarpur Corridor. They want to make 
Kushal:   it in India. But they agree with you there. 
Dr. Ali:   Well, long term, I think there is going to be an issue in Pakistan. There are, Sikhs are sort of pampered a little bit because of this Karistan angle. And so we actually invite them and let them come and buy property and things now. But it's going to become an issue because they are coming in larger numbers. And they will eventually be some sort of a clash with some mullahs. 
Amey:   Interesting. Actually, I've seen, Kushal, the Khalistan coloring maps of their territory of dreams sometimes also includes Maharashtra, because it's Nanded. 
Kushal:   Yes, Nandkana Sahib. 
Dr. Ali:   But now 
Kushal:   also. Yeah, 
Amey:   and then Patna, which to me is extremely hilarious. That will be like... 
Kushal:   Yeah, tell our Marathi people about Galistan. I mean, 
Amey:   Shusena has been out of an issue for like at least a generation. So, you know, this might spur their street muscle back in action. 
Kushal:   Yeah, Shushena will go in Atta Majhi Satakli mode immediately. 
Dr. Ali:   I was just listening to a podcast from Major Amin where he was talking about Punjab and 1857 and brought up the fact that the Sikh Empire and the whole thing Sikhs were 10% of the population of Punjab. They ruled all of Punjab You can't discount an organized and motivated minority people do amazing things. 
Amey:   I mean, I guess the current situation, the analogous situation would be how a certain group of Kalistanis who were festering for a long time. And I personally feel right, like, because, you know, I'm like, I was born in 1989. So the first time I ever heard the word Khalistan was when I was 9 and I lived in England as a teenager and I was like I've never I've lived in India like till then my whole life and So that was very illuminating and I feel like up until 2020, right, like till the farmers protests, they were just an irritant, a minor irritant. I think there's still not that big a deal. But yeah, Kushal, like curious about your perspectives. 
Amey:   I know you hadn't gone to Canada between 2014 and 2022, but could you compare, how was the situation when you, I know you studied in Canada as well. 
Kushal:   So it was not that bad when I used to study here. There were Khalistanis here, the radicalism, the intimidation, was not so much, but now it's my goodness, it's like very scary. Do you see 
Dr. Ali:   any attempt by the Hindu community to reach out to Sikhs as a community to say, yeah, what happens to 
Kushal:   Hindu-Sikh unity forum, there are many things, a lot of efforts have been made, 
Dr. Ali:   but is it working? Is there something happening now? 
Kushal:   Yes, yes, there are and there are multiple groups that are working for it. And luckily, like I said, we have consistent flow of first generation Sikh from India coming to Canada, which is why this balance is being maintained. If it was left to the second generation, this confrontational attitude would have been there long before. Now Unfortunately, there 
Kushal:   is a confrontation in some pockets. Some of our kids who are just coming from India, they have just lost it. Because when the police literally don't protect you, then the kids get angry. And that is what is making me tense. I am consistently trying to call for calmness in the Hindu side because some of the kids are, you know, What is happening is that the kids are going to the temple to worship and someone beats them. 
Kushal:   So what will that kid do? That kid will say, did I come here to get beaten up? I am coming to God's house and these people are beating me. What have I done? This is a very serious issue. 
Kushal:   And what is happening is that when they go to the Canadian government, they don't even do anything about it. The problem is they don't even respond. You see, there are 324 MPs and 2 people use the word Khalistan. The leader of the opposition doesn't do it, the Prime Minister doesn't do it. Well, there is no hope from Jagmeet. 
Amey:   And Kushal, 1 of them was Chandra Arya, who I believe is the only Hindu MP or 1 of the few? 
Kushal:   Only. Only. Anita Anand is also a Hindu. On paper, Hindu. 
Amey:   I see. I see. And so, and here's where I feel there's a divergence between America and Canada because there's another interesting Canadian journalist account, Mocha, is that how you say his name? 
Kushal:   Mocha Bezirgan, yeah. 
Amey:   Yeah. And he had, cause he's a guy, he's, I think he's Turkish Canadian or he's definitely not from subcontinent. And he generally documents Khalistani rallies amongst other things in Canada. And he was in America when Narendra Modi came here for the UN summit. And there was this rally that SFJ had in New York. 
Amey:   And he was showing the difference. Like the NYPD made them, NYPD arrested a few of those because they were stupidly brandishing like, you know, weapons at this thing. So those guys got arrested. They had to take down their Kill Modi posters. Because yes, and America has more freedom of speech than Canada, funnily enough. 
Amey:   But yeah, the response was different. But Kushal, and in Canada, it seems there is a lot more permissive thing. And, and somehow they always seem to be like, we have freedom of speech as if. Because we're Brown and Indian, freedom of speech, you know, like it's not like India may freedom of speech. Yeah, you know, like obviously it is curtailed, but similarly it's curtailed in Canada as well, right? 
Amey:   So, but 
Kushal:   it's not curtailed in Canada, which is the difference. Yeah, the state is actively allowing them to do all this nonsense, which has led to now people getting fed up. We are still confronted by some kids of Hindu society and Sikh society, who are still being controlled by the police. My biggest fear is eventually they will make us white. And that resentment if you read the mood of the nation surveys of Angus Reed Institute in Canada consistently since the last 5 years Muslims are always number 1 in negative rating they have a gold medal for negative rating here in Canada. 
Kushal:   But now I'm worried about Sikhs, they are on the silver medal. They are the second most negative rating community now. It worries me. 
Amey:   That's interesting. And like, Kushal, like I do want to discuss the immigration stuff, because sometimes I see your posts, especially, you know, the Canadian, like, it seems Canada has flipped from being like, making fun of America for being so like quote unquote anti-immigrant and you know because immigration is always a big issue here in America but now they have gone to the right of where the American conservatives generally tend to be when it comes to immigration and these just seem like normal Canadians so do want to touch upon that But 1 thing I think I missed asking you about was that it seems like the local police, especially in Peel, which I think is a county that surrounds Brampton, seems to have Kalistanis, like apparently they suspended a police officer in this Kalistani thing. So is that an added element that makes this difficult in Canada, that some of the some of the some of the areas in which this is happening, there is some calisthenics sort of infiltration of the government organizations themselves. Oh, because in India, obviously, 
Kushal:   organizations themselves. 
Amey:   Oh, Khalistani integration. 
Kushal:   No, no, it's not overblown. In fact, it's not even discussed. When the Indian High Commissioner said there are Khalistanis inside the Canadian state apparatus, imagine how bad the relations had to become for the Indian High Commissioner to eventually spill the beans. Try and understand, it's a very bad situation here. In pockets where the Indian community is, is the GTA area, Mississauga and Brampton especially and then you have the Surrey area in British Columbia If you think you have found 1 in Peel Police Now in Surrey, if you are a Surrey resident, talk to them off the record. 
Kushal:   If you talk to them off the record, they will tell you that you are a Khalistani from head to toe. This is how it is in India, whether you will get an FIR or not. 
Amey:   I see, I enjoy the driving in Brampton YouTube videos. So it's kind of funny that how 
Kushal:   pathetic boss they have and see I have always been an immigration hawk whether in India whether in America whether in Canada my stand on immigration is very clear. Immigration has to be to benefit the native country. It's a weird sort of notion. 
Kushal:   I mean, I am clear, If you cannot respect Canadian laws, Canadian culture, Canadian way of life, go back to where you came from. My stand is very clear. You don't like India? You go wherever 
Kushal:   you want to go. You have 
Kushal:   to live in India. You have to live according to India. So 
Amey:   Kushal, like on 1 level, right? It seems like Canada, you at least is or used to be a very high trust society. And I'm assuming the Canadian police job was not that difficult necessarily, right? So Canada does have laws, but they're generally, they didn't need to really enforce those because people just got along. Is there an element of like this, that being quote unquote, you know, abused by this faction? 
Amey:   Because 1 difference I find between, and I've been to Canada like once or twice and mostly to renew my American visa. So I don't have much experience of this, of Canada. But it seems to me that in Canada, the type of like, you know, what quote unquote international students do. I was an international student here in America. In America, like you wouldn't even want to ever get a drunk driving ticket. 
Amey:   Like that's instant deportation. Right. So, because if you're a Indian, if you're on a visa of any type in America, you have to like, unless you're illegal, because that's a whole different matter. But if you're, if you're on a type of legal visa, you don't want to get in even the slightest trouble, you know, like when I was an international student, I miss paying my rent check once. And I was like scared shitless ski. 
Amey:   Maybe this might affect something for me down the line. So say, how, how do you feel like, is this a contributing? Like the question I'm trying to frame is, is that, is that a difference you see is that like, I would assume that if you're an international student in Canada and you break any law even if it's like not like a massive felony that should put you in immigration trouble right 
Kushal:   because they control the system I mean, Arvind Kejriwal's line is all mixed up. This is happening here. These people hijacked. Think about it, man. In liberal NDP primaries, you can come and vote from America. 
Kushal:   You and Omar brother, get a flight. Make a fake paper and 
Kushal:   vote in any liberal NDP primary and go. 
Amey:   That blew my mind. That actually blew my mind. When I, when I read about that, so Omer, I don't know if you had been following this news as much as me, but it seems that in Canadian primaries, like non-citizens can vote, which in America, if a non-citizen claims to be an American citizen or even do anything, that's like, you will never get a green card. You will never be able to apply for naturalization because That's seen as a massive felony here in America. So I find that very curious and funny. 
Amey:   So, but Kushal, right? But are there laws on the books, right? Like if you were on a student visa in Canada, so I'm sure you must have been, perhaps you're aware of these things, but are there provisions in which if you're on a visa and you break, you commit some serious offense? Because I see these, the gang wars that happen in Canada, they typically have quote unquote international students and they are not like first time offenders. Like generally when you read the reports, they're like, oh, this guy had done 5 other, he had been arrested like 5 other times. 
Amey:   Like in America, like that would never happen. If you're an international student and you're arrested once, like that's like, okay, like do your time and you're on the next plane back to home. That's that's generally the system here. 
Kushal:   Canada, you are on the next plane to Brampton. This is like, you know, that Abhimanyu's Chakra view Canada. You just come inside. You don't want to come out. There is no way to come out. 
Kushal:   Come inside. But honestly, what happens is that this clown of a prime minister, he destroyed this society. Boss, 10 years ago, the population of this country was 3 crore. In 10 years, 
Kushal:   the population of this country 
Kushal:   has increased by 1 crore. If you eat 15 rotis, you will be satisfied. So many people have come. Boss, Indians say, why are there so many Indians? Forget the white people. 
Amey:   These are the people who came through some legal process. First, they got a student visa or came through PR. 
Kushal:   What student visa? Those are diploma mills. Go and 
Kushal:   see in Brampton. It's the limit. Came through like quote unquote, some 
Kushal:   legal process, right? By a student visa. Yeah. These are not like. Yeah. 
Kushal:   Yeah. 
Kushal:   Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 
Kushal:   I'm sorry. We have to be consistent on this immigration issue. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 
Kushal:   Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 
Kushal:   Yeah. Yeah. 
Kushal:   Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Immigration issue. Stop these Brampton diploma mills. 
Kushal:   This is nonsense. They are getting the bottom of the barrel. Who are these people? Where are they coming from? 
Amey:   It's interesting because American student visa system, it is actually a lot more restrictive. It's not that America quote unquote doesn't have student diploma mills, but they get shut down. Like you will see the FBI or USCIS, which is our immigration service. They actually routinely catch any of these. And these are generally not Punjabis. 
Amey:   These are our brothers from Andhra who are generally involved in some of these. But they they they it seems to be Canada's problem seems to be a hundred times worse on these than than ours. So and you touched upon this, right? Like Canada has increased its immigration, immigrant population by 10 million, which is like, which is insane, like 1 in 1 in 4 Canadians, or 1 in 4 residents of that country. And America for comparison has like 350 million, 360 million people. 
Amey:   And if you leave aside the fact that Biden somehow let in 8 million people over the last 4 years through the southern border. The legal immigration system in America, like Canada's legal immigration system is somehow bigger than America, which is a country that is 11 times bigger by population. So it has, like what I have noticed is that it has caused a massive immigration backlash in Canada. And I remember during the Trump years when there was a lot of like, there was a lot of talk about immigration and how Trump is racist and Trump is a fascist for cracking down on illegal immigration. I remember Trudeau used to come and go on these liberal talk shows here in America and talk about, oh, we have health care and we're nicer to immigrants. 
Amey:   That was somehow his pat on the back thing. And the Canadian liberals would feel better about themselves that, hey, we're better than those people down South in America. But it seems to me that they somehow did not expect an anti-immigration backlash, which Canada throughout its history had, has there ever been a situation in Canada where the general population was this anti-immigrant? And I'm saying this because I notice a lot of anti-Indian hate on Twitter now seems to be from Canada of all places. So, yeah, so, you know, to it as a, as a last section of this podcast, I would love for you to like, talk about this. 
Kushal:   Canada was the most pro immigration society I have come across. I always say of all the whites I've met, Canadian whites are the nicest whites. And I say this with all seriousness for the record, I still maintain it. I still maintain it. I have, see, I have met Bathera goras in 
Kushal:   my life, American goras, Canadians, Australians, British, many. I have been around the world. These are very calm people. And Trudeau and try and understand the Canadian conservatives are pro-immigration were and the Canadian liberals were pro-immigration. NDP was pro-immigration. 
Kushal:   Basically all of Canada was pro-immigration. Why? Because 1 lakh, 1.5 lakh people used to come. 2 lakhs. They used to adjust. 
Kushal:   They used to Canadianize. This mad man in the last 4 years, 10 lakhs, 10 lakhs, 10 lakhs. And from where did he get 10 lakhs? Means he failed in the diploma mill also. Understand, he is not passing even after coming in the diploma mill. 
Kushal:   He is failing even after failing in the diploma mill. So, I mean, forget the foreigners, I want them to go back to India. 
Amey:   And somehow they protest against their own professors, right? Because 
Kushal:   they don't even speak English. Who the hell are these people? Yeah, boss. Well, see, you know, my stand, I have always been a promoter. You know, I've always been like that. 
Kushal:   You know, my nature, I have, if you follow me, I'm very particular about it. 
Kushal:   You know, that's been my nature. Obviously, if you're not born there, I will not force it on you. But yeah, you freak, you are coming from freaking Punjab all the way to Canada. Oh, you are doing a protest and you don't even speak in English. So why did you come here? 
Kushal:   You go back. You stay in India. Who is telling you that you don't know English to come here? I'm sorry. This is, this is, there is no excuse. 
Kushal:   Like 
Amey:   so America requires TOEFL, but I guess Canada requires IELTS, but I 
Kushal:   was scam. I have destroyed the system. This idiot Trudeau and Mark Miller. I forgot the name of the previous minister. He is the 1 who has destroyed the system. 
Kushal:   He is the 1 
Kushal:   who has destroyed the system. 
Amey:   Wasn't that some Sikh guy? Parminder Bans or something? 
Kushal:   No, no. 
Kushal:   He was a white man. He was a white man before Mark Miller. And I completely blacked out on his name, blanked out on his name. And, and, you know, these people have, yeah. 
Kushal:   What have they done to Canada? Seriously, for goodness sake, just freaking send us some of these like, yeah, that's not cool. 
Amey:   And it's kind of funny because if this had happened and you like in America, we have elections tomorrow. And if you look at Kamala, cause like immigration plan, that is, that seems like Trump's plan from 2016. So everyone is like, extremely right on immigration, like even Democrats have like, stopped talking about sanctuary cities and... 
Kushal:   Yeah, so look at how the how the pushback has resulted in Canadians reducing the numbers of immigration. Look at in the last... If you look at my last podcast with Darshan Maharaja, you know, who has been an immigration hawk here in Canada, Darshan Bhai explains the entire history of Canadian. Yaar inki economy kya bana diye log, they are a resource rich country, right? Tel, lumber aur yeh sab hai. 
Kushal:   Wo kuchh nahi nikalte hai, yeh paagal aadmi hai yeh Trudeau. Wo baith ke yeh malo hai, Canada has become plotistan like Pakistan. 25% of their GDP, boss, is real estate. Now if real estate makes GDP, then what will be its result? Mass immigration. 
Amey:   Yeah, that's right. I mean, unless you're like some place like Dubai, which is, you know, who 
Kushal:   has nothing. This is, boss, it's simple in Canada. If you're a little 
Kushal:   hungry, if you're hungry like them, dig a tank, get oil and sell it. Common sense. Society was crazy. I'm telling you, you, you have to live here to understand how much they hate Trudeau. It is unbelievable how much they hate Trudeau. 
Kushal:   Trudeau is the most hated man in Canada right now. He's more hated than the Khalistanis. 
Amey:   I have 1 good Canadian Gora friend who is from Ottawa and he is an NDP voter. And even he is like very, 
Kushal:   you 
Amey:   know, so 
Kushal:   it's very hard to find a person who likes Trudeau. 
Amey:   Yeah. That's funny. So, you know, in, in, in closing thoughts, Kushal and, and for the listeners Omar had to leave early because, he had, he's, he's on call And as a doctor, his job is much more important than any of ours. So yeah, so Kushal, for your thoughts, where do you see Canada going? Like, yeah, sure, they can reduce the immigration numbers, but Joe already I have, right? 
Amey:   And if you look up, if you look at videos coming, I haven't like there's a student protest apparently going on in Canada, first of all, like- 
Kushal:   In Brampton. 
Amey:   Yeah, and like, as someone who has been an international student and who knows a lot of Indians here in America, it just seems zameen asman ka difference of the human capital that America attracts from India and what has happened in Brampton. So yeah, so curious, what happens with the people who are already there because 10 lakh and I think it's more than I mean yearly 10 lakhs, I'm assuming it's like 20-30 lakhs So what about those who are already there? Because I don't, it doesn't seem that many of them 
Kushal:   have They will eventually have to do a little bit of cheating and absorb it. But if they stop coming fresh, then the pressure on the economy will be reduced. But the problem is they don't have the skill. They are not passing the basic exams. How many Uber will they run? 
Kushal:   How many deliveries will they do? They don't have the skill. And nobody is talking about the largest crisis facing Canada. From the year 2026 or 28 onwards, baby boomers start retiring in Canada. And by the time they hit, I think, 2032-34, all of them are gone. 
Kushal:   Oh baba, kaun unko replace karega? Ye log band nahin kar sakse darwaje. Bacche toh karte nahin hai ye pagal. 
Amey:   And Kushal, it's kind of funny because if you work in tech and if you live in Who will replace them? They can't close the doors. Kids don't do that. From University of Waterloo. So it seems to me that Canadians who are born in Canada and that human capital, most of it is the ones that are ambitious, end up in America. 
Amey:   So Canada is somehow swapping its highest end talent pool for bringing in immigrants without even, forget equivalent, but even 50% or 20% of the skills of the people they actually lose out to America. At least that's my, that is my view from sitting here being surrounded by so many Canadian, like top Canadian university graduates here. 
Kushal:   Big C, Canada key. There are multiple societal issues in Canada because they have always been, you know, the 1 being bullied socially by America. I think it has led to sociological issues here. I think it has led to sociological issues here. Canada needs to develop a spine. 
Kushal:   I might sound crazy but I think I might sound crazy but I think the new immigrants might be the ones because they bring a lot of, you know what if Canada gets rid of Trudeau goes back to the old Harper line. Prime Minister Harper. I mean, Prime Minister Harper. I think Canada can come back because you know, these new immigrants that have come, not all of them are crazy cuckoo, right? If 2-3 lakh of them are sent back to wherever they are from, including India, most of them India. 
Kushal:   I think this country still has a spirit. I love this country boss. I could have moved to America also. I chose Canada over America. 
Kushal:   By choice. I still believe in the Canadian idea. I love India. My UCLA, again, my happy shame. I need by choice. 
Kushal:   Ooh, India. My shame. I need by choice. Ooh, I am very bullish on India. Also. 
Kushal:   I love both America, India, and Canada. I love both countries. I have a soft corner for both, which is why this entire skirmish because of this clown Trudeau has hurt me so much is because they're forcing me to pick. I don't want to pick. I love both. 
Kushal:   I truly love both countries. I think Canada has many good things. I repeat, I want the lingering memory of people in India or anybody who listens to this podcast is these are wonderful people. Yes, there will be races everywhere, but overall, this is a very accepting society. Everyone of you who are tolerating this, recently see the atrocities our kids have committed on Diwali day at Young and Dundas. 
Amey:   I saw, yeah. Our kids 
Kushal:   should be drowned. 
Amey:   It's actually funny because, Kushal, I literally saw the Canadian friend I was mentioning from Ottawa. I took him to Mumbai to show him Diwali. And we both just got back. I came back from India yesterday and he sends me that, that Twitter video. And he was like, we should have just gone to Canada instead of Mumbai, because 
Kushal:   you have born, you have grown up there when actually India was at its ranty best to use our Mumbai. Yeah. 
Kushal:   Yeah. Yeah. We don't do this in Bombay. 
Kushal:   And you know, people might ask us, what 
Kushal:   are you doing? I've never seen this in my childhood. And I live in India. Who are these people? 
Kushal:   I'm 
Amey:   serious. My Diwali was, my parents now live in Navi Mumbai. So my Diwali was in that nice little housing society. 
Kushal:   And we were so, you know, we would enjoy. We used to blow up bombs and put them inside coconuts. But we had our own way of doing it. We used to fight and first we used to stop the cars there, we used to stop here, we used to stop everywhere. 
Amey:   It almost seems like a domination sort of 
Kushal:   thing. Yes, it's intimidation, which is what I hate. I mean, seriously, I mean, F these people. This is wrong. And any decent person with a functioning brain will oppose. 
Kushal:   Do you know subset that guy? Yeah. Yeah. You hold a little go. 
Amey:   Because, and it's kind of funny because these guys were asking, like making sure And like, it's kind of hilarious. Like maybe Pannu should have been telling his people, don't drop a bomb in the middle of the road in Canada. You know, but yeah, that, that was. 
Kushal:   It's insane. Yeah. It's just hooliganism, man. It just breaks my heart. These high trust societies like Canada is a very high trust society. 
Kushal:   See, it's not America. I've lived in America too. So I know America, Canada, 
Amey:   and like I'm, I'm very well aware. Right. And as someone who has lived in America for 17 years and has to have worked with the American immigration system and, you know, I don't know if you have come across this but Canada tends to take a lot, because in America there's a country quota for green cards. So a lot of H1Bs actually end up moving to Canada, get a PR, even get a Canadian citizenship and then come back to America. So a lot of like the, 1 of the quote unquote immigration pathways, because if you lose a job on a visa here in America, you have 60 days to leave the country. 
Amey:   Doesn't matter you own a property here, none of that matters. So this is a having worked under this immigration system, Canadian immigration system just was has always seemed to me as a much nicer and much, I guess, sensible, you know. 
Kushal:   It has ruined it. The motion M44 that Randeep Sarai or Saral, whatever his name is, brought to make temporary workers permanent, and now it has changed. The destruction started from there. 
Amey:   With your friend Daniel recently. And for our listeners, that was the motion which expanded the Canadian immigration program to people with no skills effectively as 
Kushal:   well. Disgusting. 
Amey:   Right? In America, I don't think you can even, without a bachelor's degree from like a school that an American, like you can have a foreign bachelor's degree, that's fine. But without that, you don't even have a hope to get a work permit in America of any sort. So. 
Kushal:   Yeah, it's just, it just breaks my heart, man. If, if listen, every patriotic Indian who loves India should care for this, what is happening in Canada under the garb of immigration and, and oppose Khalistan with all their might. 
Amey:   Because like, and for what it's worth, right. Like for us Indians who live in North America, you know, these are these are very intertwined communities and America has a lot of respect for us, you know, as as a immigrant community and I know that That's true for Canada as well. 
Kushal:   Oh, that's 
Amey:   the unfortunate part. So, Yeah. And, And it's funny because they're trying to attempt something like that here in California, but they just don't have the numbers anywhere close to pull that off. And for what it's worth, the first time I actually became aware of, well, I had come across 1 of the referendum rallies in London in 2019. I was like, yeah, yeah. 
Amey:   Joker Panty. But, you know, that was that. But they actually shut down the Golden Gate Bridge here in San Francisco for the farmers movement. That was when my Then they pissed off the entire city. That's what when my American friends were asking me, like, what are these guys protesting? 
Amey:   Right. And in America, their protests always just look entirely out of place. That yeh kya chal hua hai. But it seems like in Canada, they have somehow managed to have some critical mass. 
Kushal:   Yeah, see, it's a tragedy. But you know, for me, the lasting memory today was I tweeted it to the video of the Canadian Hindus inside the Hindu Sabha Mandir to show solidarity against Khalistan. There were Jewish members of the Canadian society, everybody, all of them got together. We had Israeli flags, Canadian flags, Indian flags, Jai Shri Ram Bhagwa, and everybody was singing the Canadian National Anthem. That's the Canada I knew. 
Kushal:   Not this shit show that these Khalistanis have turned it into. I'm sorry, it's just disgusting. And I hope that when we talk about it, we have to normalize Khalistan being a bad idea in our North American discourse. Forget. I read about it in India. 
Kushal:   Indians it's not irritated. They don't say that we don't have it. I don't know. I've been there for 6 months. But here we have to normalize it being a bad word. 
Kushal:   Khalistan should be a pejorative. 
Amey:   And what has happened, right, is that, please, the way I see it, and I'm, and my, you know, I'm still an Indian citizen. So I, you know, still follow Indian politics. I'm, I'm, I'm BJP leaning, but I don't support Narendra Modi and everything. But what has happened at least has been the constant bashing of everything India and especially around Narendra Modi. And by the way, that bashing was led by Indians in America. 
Amey:   Like, you know, 
Kushal:   like New 
Amey:   York Times didn't learn this out of the blue. They hired people like Meera Kamdar. A lot of the original quote unquote, anti-India propaganda which people in India think CIA is somehow paying all these newspapers. That's just not true. A lot of it was by these academic types who had immigrated like 50 years ago, a lot of like Bengali type professors. 
Amey:   They are the ones who started it. But the problem with being an opposition in India versus being an opposition to India is that once you have maligned things to an extent, like then everything seems plausible, right? Like it's like Khalistan to an American news reporter just seems like, oh, an anti-Modi movement, you know, which if anyone knows the first thing about it is not the case. And these guys generally just don't have the time or even interest in learning about the intricacies because from an American perspective, this is just something that's happening from another part of the world. Like, there is just no expertise here for this stuff at all. 
Amey:   So that they do manage to then push their narrative through by piggybacking on the existing anti Modi and the India narrative. 
Kushal:   That's okay. The My response has always been 3 pronged. A. You try to correct them factually. B. 
Kushal:   You tell them they are stupid and they have no locus standee. And 3. You push the Indian side to become a 10 trillion dollar economy. After that, you sing and dance. The whole world will dance. 
Kushal:   It's nothing, man. Once you have $10 trillion, everyone knows it's a game of money. I want to see what BCCI is doing. BCCI is making people dance. Board for Cricket Control of India. 
Kushal:   I'm telling the truth, man. I'm not lying. We've become $10 trillion. John Cena will speak Hindi after that. 
Amey:   That is true. 
Kushal:   Everything downstream from monetary might and hard power. Why do people in America listen? People in America listen because they have money and military power. We have to do the same. We have to reach 10 trillion first and then see how these guys dance see, all of them will do Bhangra, all of them will sing Lavani 
Amey:   1 of those things we should just best counterfactually for us as people living here in North America and for people in India, I think the best is to kind of just ignore random shit that happens. I do agree, they should not ignore the things happening in Canada when it escalates to attacks on diplomats and temples. But beyond that, I think this is a lot of oil. 
Kushal:   Yeah, it's nothing. And look, beyond a point, which Elon has also increased racism by free speech on Twitter, we just have to take it in our stride. Yeah. It's 
Amey:   we need a Pradhan month, 3 chimney thickening. Yeah. 
Kushal:   Yeah. So it's okay. Is it nice to hear those things? No, but yad rakho internet pe humko harana bahut mushkil hai. There are too many of us and Mukesh bhai has given us sasta data. 
Amey:   So that is true. 
Kushal:   I think the perfect way to end this podcast is long live Mukesh bhai. 
Amey:   I call the Indian Twitter Bhagwa boys, you know, 
Kushal:   like, 
Amey:   it's, they're very useful sometimes when, when, especially when it's like some racist white guy on Twitter. So, Anyway, Kushal, I know you have had a really long day and really appreciate you coming on this podcast because I thought it was very important because a lot of our listeners, I think we have quite a few in Canada as well, but a lot of them are Indians based in America here. And I think as people in America, we should definitely care what's happening literally right next door to us. So thanks a lot for coming on and we'll be having you more. Cause I think for some reason Canada does not seem to go out of news at all. 
Amey:   There's something happening. Like I, as someone who has been listening to your podcast a lot, when you started the series with Daniel, Oh, Canada, I was like, I was like, Oh, this is an interesting thing. Cause I do like Daniel, but I was wondering, will Kushal have enough content for, for, for the show to go on beyond 1 or 2 episodes. And it turns out I, I have been wrong so far. So 
Kushal:   yeah, we have a lot. And we have care tomorrow morning. We have a very big guest coming as long as he doesn't cancel. We'll have a member of parliament from Canada coming on the podcast. 
Amey:   Oh, okay. Well on that note, I think, you know, I, I will encourage our listeners to follow Kushil on social media. We'll add them in the show notes, add a link to Charvak podcast and other podcasts Kushil is on and, and look forward to listening to your next show. 
Kushal:   Yeah, thanks. Thanks a lot. I wish you guys all the best. I'm glad Brown Pundits does what it does and I hope to stay in touch with you guys. Take care. 
Kushal:   Yep.