Did we even have a Pax Americana? John Mearsheimer has forcefully argued that when the US became the sole superpower in the 1990s, it became more aggressive and unhinged when there was no counter-vailing force. People forget that sanctions on Iraq in the 1990s killed 500,000 people, and they were targeting the civilian population. To go down the list of all the crimes committed by the US empire would take us all day.
I suppose I just reject the premise of there even being peace by the US to begin with. As for the staying power of the US, I wrote about that in the last OT. The TL;DR version is that China will likely be able to carve out a space in the ASEAN region but not much beyond it. The US has an enormous puppet network that China or any other country simply lacks. Even India is becoming more submissive to US diktat, which is the opposite of what you’d expect from a country that was supposedly rising.
@principia
First, Pax Americana in the global sense truly began with the end of the WWII (the US was always economically and militarily superior to the USSR, and Soviets knew this well), so one should take into consideration the situation of the world since 1946 rather than 1990 when assessing Pax Americana. Second, every pax is relative and is defined with respect to what came before and after (assuming there is an after). The world since 1946 is certainly considerably peaceful politically and militarily compared to the earlier part of the 20th century. This is in fact the most peaceful period of the known world history, more peaceful on a global or even Eurasian scale than even the times of Pax Romana and Pax Mongolica. The US surely has lots of things to criticize and I am no US sympathizer (I am a critic of the US on many issues in fact), but its contribution to world peace has been immensely greater than its harm to it in total.
Is the idea even really a Pax Americana to begin with? We are the anchor along with the white Anglosphere and then the larger EU economies. There is a division of labor where the US spends about 2x the share of its GDP more on defense than the UK and France in this global security arrangement, but they possess enough technological competence to surge capacity effectively in anticipation of a deteriorating environment. My take is that nation-states don’t circumscribe political interest groups neatly in the west. From the distance of Asia or Africa, the US, Canada, Aus and UK are best considered one nation
Not quite ready for prime time. I had to close it and restart it several times because it would just stop.
principia
3 years ago
The FM of Pakistan spoke frankly of the Israel lobby on US media, while being interviewed by a Jewish journalist. You might imagine how well that went down.
He’s not wrong in his statements, but he’s acting like a bull in a China shop. Still pretty funny.
India remains greatest rising power despite Covid-19 tragedy: Report
Main Ou
3 years ago
In the thread on India’s agricultural hearths, someone mentioned the dispersal of African crops into India. This article places the dispersal’s origins in Sudan: https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/10061925/
The Meroitic god Apedemak is leontocephaline and possesses four-arms, and wouldn’t be out of place in India. There’s also a relief of him as a lion-headed serpent emerging from a lotus, but that imagery far-off from the iconography of Hellenistic Egyptian deities. Still, there are tantalizing connections between the Sudan and India. Both countries are also the sites of the earliest cultivation of cotton: https://journals.openedition.org/ethnoecologie/4429
Anand Sridharan, an investor at Nalanda Capital, has written a scintillating substack on the Indian vaccine makers who are quietly transforming the fight against Covid.
We’re lucky to have Serum Institute and Bharat Biotech.
Western vaccine triopoly retained ~90% of vaccines for home use. Outside of a few tiny countries, each slightly larger than Andheri, Big-3 made no difference to any country’s vaccination program. In no scenario could they have made a difference to India’s. Our only option in H1 of 2021 (and beyond) is to have our own Aatmanirbhar, global-scale, credible vaccine manufacturers.
While I have always thought highly of Serum Institute, I didn’t realize how high they were in global pecking order until I studied Western peers. Serum is World’s #2 covid-vaccine producer. Serum makes as many vaccines out of Pune as Pfizer does out of its US site in Kalamazoo. Serum has achieved >2x scale of its parent AstraZeneca, while selling vaccines at half the price. That AstraZeneca is struggling to meet even a third of its commitment to EU (300M doses in H1) indicates how non-trivial Serum’s achievement is. Serum has sold >200M vaccines to India at $2/dose and will sell even more at $4/dose. Thanks to Serum, India can buy over half a billion doses at a price lower than Moderna’s material cost. Serum has exported 3x more vaccines to developing countries than Big-3 combined (>60M vs 20M). As it scales from 70M doses/month to 100M doses/month, Serum will maintain its World #2 status.
Since I have focused on Q1, I spoke more of Serum than Bharat Biotech. However, Bharat Biotech is equally commendable. Their May production run-rate (30M/month) nearly matches AstraZeneca’s and is 3-months behind Moderna’s ramp-up. At 70M doses/month, they’ll match Moderna in a few months. That they did it without an MNC collaborator makes it even more creditable. To have two Indian companies amidst global top-5 in a highly-specialized niche is a phenomenal achievement (and blessing).
….This is as good as it can get, amidst a global pandemic. Thank you, Bharat Ratnas.
As a member of Capitalist Party of India, I have always had only admiration for these folks. I would have conferred Bharat Ratna on them.
I am disappointed with the usual suspects: Indian people, what a bunch of pot-bellied, low-IQ retards and the Federal and State governments. Modi and his ministers abdicated responsibility, lied and expectedly shat in their pants when facing a real challenge and tens of thousands of my people are dying everyday. The pandemic has decisively proven (to me) that India will remain a shit-hole for decades to come and that hurts.
Too many people are dying man, it is hard to be optimistic.
I remember sparring with another commenter offended by me calling Poonawala a ‘dev-purush’, ‘God’ or some other honorific. I really respect and appreciate these heroes. Without them we would be Africa.
don’t want to sound too glib, but a certain perspective/big picture thinking is needed if a region/people are to be sovereign. The entire Grant Trunk Road Belt seems to swing wildly and change courses just like some rivers. Change comes by incrementally, not 1 step forward and 2 steps back. Socialism/Capitalism are means not the end. People seem more wedded to Krantikari or RightWing economic ideas.
@bhumiputra
Good luck changing that mentality (which is celebrated) and good luck fending it off from taking over every other region of the country. In exchange we will learn real hindu asabiyah with mehndi covered hands and ghungat, lol
Yes, barring major mutations, the fact that we have a decent pharma manufacturing industry should help us overcome the pandemic by the end of 2021. I think the point I was making was alluded to in another one of Sridharan’s posts, https://buggyhuman.substack.com/p/vaccicorns-an-improbable-rescue-mission.
My question was why do we have not more vaccine candidates from India ? Sridharan says that there is insufficient support from the government. This is correct, but not the root cause.
If you look at the journals where the inventors of M-RNA techniques publish (Journal of Biological Chemistry for example), you will see that publications from India are outnumbered by publications from the US by a 20 to 1 ratio. Of course, the US is much richer, but we can do better. The US simply has more manpower in this aspect than we do.
There are other vaccine candidates from India. The Bharat Biotech one was just the first to get approved and pass phase 3 trials and go into production.
Rose
3 years ago
@Razib
Why do many Indians have very African/Black facial features? ?w=1200&h=732 ?width=1200&height=1200&quality=85&auto=format&fit=crop&s=2def95e0254d71717c3f562b011d18b3
Except Afro hair, Indian populations have all range of colours, some as black as African. Actually the quesion is wrong. Africans don’t have a monopoly or copyright on skin colour or height or anything. So you have similar features in other parts of the world. Geneticist posit a type called Ancient Ancestral South Indian which is related to Andamanese and Nicobarese paleolithic tribes. These tribes have remained unmixed for 50000 years and part of the very early migrations out of Africa .This so called AASI is thought to be major component across all Indian , and Pakistani/Bangladeshi populations , more so in the south India. Google for these tribes
having said that , some, perhaps few thousand Africans were brought to India in the last 500 years as part of Arab slave trade and they are integrated in Indian society
What is the big deal about it. Different features are distributed across the world and across Africa also different features are distributed. Egyptian or Algerian have different features than Koisaan or Soth African or bantu or Nilotic. Variation and multiplicity of features across the world is the default condition and should not surprise anyone informed
NM
3 years ago
Time to get Curwen on BP podcast:
Razib on Twitter:
it’s the kali yuga and cowardice reigns supreme
friend shall denounce friend
child shall turn out parent
but the day will come when the maryannu will say no more. wait for that day. for where the evil burns they shall rush, meeting the darkness with fire
Curwen on his blog: https://aryaakasha.com/2021/05/22/khans-maryannu-invocation
For context, this man is a prominent geneticist frequently commenting on matters pertaining to our field. The ‘Maryannu’ he references here are a rather intriguing group spoken of in the ancient Near East, that appear to have constituted chariot-borne warriors. Indo-European chariot-borne warriors, based around the speculated etymological link of “Maryannu” to Sanskrit मर्य [‘Marya’] – a term which connoted young men, eager for glory.
The supposition is that, in line with very recent advancements in archaeology and archaeogenetics, the spread of these ‘Maryannu’ and their revolutionary chariot-borne warfare approach was an expansion of the Indo-Iranian, and more specifically Indo-Aryan clades coming down and heading *west* through the Near East. If you have read about the intriguing either Indo-Aryan or Sanskrit superstrate of Mitanni (an otherwise theoretically non-IE-base population that mysteriously seems to wind up with a ruling class speaking Indo-Aryan, utilizing Indo-Aryan deifics in their state religion, and employing horse-trainers that appear to have been quite directly linked to the Indo-Aryan civilization found further East … in fact with the entire confederacy built around such a corps) …
Well, the Maryannu are those guys, we suspect.
Khan is, of course, memeing quite hard about this. Yet all the best memes – they endure, precisely because they maintain an essence of truth.
principia
3 years ago
I have often mentioned how disappointed I am in Asian-American activism (or lack thereof). There are plenty of AA activists, but they tend to be involved in generic political causes. But pan-Asian activism has been too splintered and weak-sauce. Until now?
A single Asian advocacy organisation raised 1 *billion* USD to raise awareness against the recent wave of hatecrimes. Their CEO is South Asian, which is a good sign (no segregation between yellow/brown folks). I hope this momentum will not fade once/when things calm down.
is the new dmk govt. walking into a trap set by bjp et al, by taking on jaggi and temples issue. they had lots of work to do and this is a useless excercise.
The real Dravidian party cant fight the urge of demolishing Hinduism in his backyard for long. So there is that
Scorpion Eater
3 years ago
jews are really lucky people. they have got an entire “ism” invented for those who dare to criticize them.
i mean, if you criticize some other nation, say the british, you won’t be accused of “antibritishism” and sent on a guilt trip. nor will someone lay the blame of “antisinicism” on you for questioning china’s actions. but say one word against israel, and one will instantly be accused of antisemitism , which in turn means you will be branded a low-life racist by the liberal media, and you will not be considered fit enough to be in polite company.
i am no holocaust denier or anything like that. i am far too well read for that kind of BS. but i do feel jews have mastered the art of playing the victim to the level of perfection.
one would have thought that the traumatic experience of holocaust would make them more emphatic to other people’s plight. in reality it has made them exactly the opposite. they have turned into a deeply immoral and unscrupulous people.
it is funny to see such a puny nation showing imperialistic airs. i mean, however much land they grab, they will not even become the size of an average european country like spain or france. so what is even the point of all that.
a few extra sq miles won’t give them any security. israelis know very well that their ultimate security lies in america. but they go about pretending as if evicting more and more palestinian from their homes in jerusalem is an existential necessity. just wtf.
People like FM Qureshi (and most people) are coping by trying to get into Anti-semitism debate. It is not taboos against anti-semitism that is protecting Israel from Jihad.
Regular ass-whooping does demoralize weaker adversaries, gives them more things to worry about. Look at how Indian Politicians speak so carefully about the Chinese now, not so long ago Mota Bhai was claiming Aksai Chin in the Lok Sabha. One tight slap and aukaat yaad dila di. All terrorist attacks have stopped post Balakot surgical strikes, so escalating violence does seem to work.
Not that your (or my) opinions matter, imagine what Arabs would have done to Israelis if the tables were turned. See what Azeris did to Armenians.
There is a massive difference in expectations from say Saudi Arabia (in Yemen) vs Israel simply because people think Israel can be forced into listening while Saudis are truly irredeemable.
Israel is probably the only state in the world that is getting less and less accepted in the world as time passes by. A UN vote in 1947 mandated creation of Israel, a similar vote held today would not guarantee the same result. Israel is not the USA, it’s ability to inflict violence (usually on the hostage population within its control) does not deter its foes. That should signal that violence in of itself is useless if you cannot make your foes accept your dominance. The US is pulling a lot of strings to make Israel viable, from providing it billions of dollars in aid, bribing Arab dictators to maintain peace with Israel, or by manipulating the media narrative, to favor it and provide favorable trading links, tech sharing etc etc. Without the US, Israel would not be able to exist in peace for long unless they actually make peace with neighbors. They don’t have the ability to conquer and subjugate the entire Arab world.
Like I said earlier idk the details about what is going on. I do not consider this a top-tier conflict in the league of Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan or even Libya. It is actually even less significant than Armenia or Myanmmar (in humanitarian terms). Muslim countries make noises as targeting Israel is convenient.
I saw the Al-Aqsa police video, the police were just doing their job, they could not have been more humane. But Palestinians being Muslims tried to hoodwink the world into making it look like some terrible atrocity when it was lame compared to even Indian police lathi-charges.
You already know it is not American bribes that stops Arab dictator, Iranian clerics or Pakistani generals from making war. It is the very real prospect of a crushing defeat or worse getting nuked. None of these guys are paragons of peace or restraint. If they had even a slight chance they would have taken it. They just know they will lose.
\A UN vote in 1947 mandated creation of Israel,\
Creation of Isreal did not come about by any UN resolutionj in 47. After WW1 , Ottomons collapsed and palestine , former province of Ottomons was put under UN mandate and the British were the administrators. The UN mandate ended in September 47 and there was vacuam of soveriegnty or jurisdiction as Arab parties rejected UN plans for partition. Palestine become No man’s land, so to say . In stepped Ben Gurion and the Jewish party who seized control when the mandate ended and proclaimed the state of Israel.
That was quick action by Ben Gurion. Stalin thought Israel is a slap in the face of western countries, so USSR was the first country to recognise Israel. It took few years before the US warmed o Israel. Israel has deftly played international politics, not to speak of creation of a modern state. Israel has a resiliency which is not dependent upon US or other external support, not that it’s external support is about to diminish. Over years it has gained acceptance among most countries except some Muslim countries. I don’t think any non Muslim countries are yet to recognise Israel. It’s immediate bigger Arab countries Jordon, Egypt have recognised it.
You have got everything backwards. There is no specific proximate relation to the property of “Jewishness” that causes the West or other entities to support them.
Israel, Pakistan, KSA, UAE – these were all entities that were created as the West retreated from Asia. Just look at the borders of Syria-Iraq, Iraq-KSA or Israel-Egypt – straight lines. Many of these entities have no naturally occurring paradigms. Some of them have an ethnic and cultural affinity – like Israel which causes territory building.
Now, take KSA, it shouldn’t exist. They have been existing only as a part of other empires in the last 800 years. Only with the great assistance of the British, they were able to throw off the Ottoman shackles and become an independent entity. But once they formed, they created a back-history to fill the gaps. Exactly like Israel.
No state in the Middle East – apart from the Egyptians, Iranians or the Iraqis have any civilizational currency from the Bronze Age. They are all fiat states.
I will give you another clue – the West never supports or subsidizes the civilization states – Iraq, Iran, Eqypt. Its only the fiat states which have deep military and economic links with the West – KSA, Israel, Jordan etc.
@ugra
I’m sure there are exceptions, and one can argue Egypt gets support or whatever, but very interesting point to explore further. What’s the initial hypothesis as to why this may be? Is it that the post-imperial west has no way of engaging meaningfully with populism? Its always fishing for an oligarchy or comprador class to work with. Its sort of why the US has never warmed up to India. Too unpredictable. Will the country even last they used to ask in the 50/60s The key people keep on changing, and they aren’t really products of *our* institutions. ect. With Pakistan you know which relationships matter. I’ve noticed in the state department circles in DC, they are always hanging around the diplomats of quasi failed states, because that’s the opportunity.
Its mostly geopolitics that creates the value or, the lack of it, in an entity. By its very nature – a newly created state with artificial boundaries – seeks external allies to sustain its integrity. It’s vulnerability is useful in forming friendships. Therefore by creating an artifical state – you can seek to influence the newly formed elites of that group. In that sense – Israel – has a double vulnerability – new state and the elites are just one generation away from a European or a Russian ancestor.
Talk to any Egyptian or an Iranian – the Muslim wrapper is just from yesterday’s dinner – they will exhibit modes of thinking that aren’t attuned to the exigencies of today’s politics. They were here since ages immemorial – and they aren’t easily slotted into mental pens.
In this sense – Pakistanis and Israelis are exactly the same. Their entire philosophical sojourns extends only to existential questions. They are easily persuaded into camps (whatever they may be).
Tolkien’s fantasy incorporates all elements of this civilizational aspect – the Elves are here since forever (I was there 3000 years ago meme), the Dwarves are invested in the loss of their historical habitat under Moria while the Orcs do not have any institutional memory. The Dwarves and Elves don’t like each other – they retain all the memories of ancient fights (territorial and kingly). They refuse to ally for any cause and go their own ways.
@S Quereshi
The West did try to establish relations – only the artificial states (KSA, Jordan, Israel, Pakistan) have managed to hold on and make these ties flourish. They need the West far more than the civilizational states. Survival is a powerful motivation.
The civilization-states have retained the memory of standing on their own feet. Japan is an exception here – but Japan has been the only country to get nuked twice.
I see your logic but it really does not translate to ground realities. China went full on communist wiping out its history, India is running on British political and judicial system, Egypt is a puppet dictatorship, Iraq is a foreign playground.. Only Iran seems to be really be independent of the West. This civilization-al continuity is just that: a memory.
The Family Man 2 lands into controversy; Tamils protest against the show
thewarlock
3 years ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmtRCNZihTk
Excellent video on the Iron Dome. Stay safe Israel. You are surrounded by radical islamists. Man Hezbollah has 150,000 rockets?!
“It isn’t my case that the Congress or the Gandhi family don’t understand this. They might take the Modi-Shah BJP lightly only in the sense that they are contemptuous of them, and probably do not acknowledge why they keep winning by these humongous margins. The Congress has three key flaws in its thinking:
– That the rise of Narendra Modi is still a passing aberration. The voters will see the light soon enough. They missed out in 2019 because of Pulwama, but now there is the pandemic and economic decline.
– The most vulnerable aspect of the BJP — its Achilles’ Heel or, if we Indianise this by borrowing non-judgementally from the Ramayana, like Ravana’s navel — is the RSS and its ideology. An ideology is an amorphous entity. Personalities are for real. The Congress wastes its limited ammunition attacking RSS, cow-urine-dung trivia, Savarkar, Golwalkar. The BJP limits itself to the Nehru-Gandhi dynasty, and often says nice things about the other leaders of the Congress’ past and present.
– The future of the Congress is now hard-Left. That’s why it allies with the Left Front and draws a blank in Bengal while fighting it in Kerala. If only it had aligned with Mamata instead, on whatever terms, it might have had a clearer pitch against the Left in Kerala, a state it could have won. And may have won at least a few seats in West Bengal. Anything would be better than zero. But this Congress, especially the younger ones, is besotted with the Communists. For evidence, watch who runs their social media operations, and how.”
As the left becomes more radical, it will start to ally more and more with the most radical of islamists. The unholy alliance will manifest only deeper. India is in for a bad near future ride of communism and terrorism, as Modi’s popularity wanes with this pandemic, even given that no leader would have handled it particularly well. Hell the supposed “I love the poor” attitude of the UPA government charged that even the initial lockdowns were draconian and advocated for a lot more openess. If anything, under them this might have ended up getting even worse.
modi’s pollitical demise appears premature. the bhakts are solid like indira gandhi’s voters. they will not flinch. others will be persuded by the following:
1. pappu as an alternate will be disastrous.
2. no tax increase in the next budget, effective reductions in the last two budgets.
3. push on infra, including piped water etc. in addition massive house building can be started as trc did in telengana.
4. more direct cash transfers, especially in the last year.
5. ofcourse, ram mandir will be substantially completed, but will be kept in the back ground. not sure of kashmir, caa, nrc etc.
The central assertion of this video is that Israel doesn’t need the US anymore (at least not to the extent that a lot of anti-Israel people think). The US military aid mainly goes to defensive stuff like Iron Dome and without such things Israel would be a lot more brutal as there would be more civilian deaths on their side. He also says that the current situation will persist until there is a global confict, when the Palestinians would be genocided under its cover.
Even during the depths of the pandemic, it is still overwhelmingly positive as of writing. Once India moves out of crisis, there’s no reason why he shouldn’t get back partially – if not fully – to where he was before. Modi has almost North Korea-tier adulation, except he doesn’t have to use the military or police to enforce his popularity. Anyone thinking Modi is toast is either a political operative or deluding themselves on wishful thinking.
To me, Modi’s third term is basically a shoe-in. The real question is what comes next, as he is getting older and older. He has been very successful at eliminating potential rivals. The only real charismatic potential replacement in the BJP I see is Yogi, but he isn’t as suave among elites as Modi (who got good at it early in Gujarat). Yogi would also elicit a hugely negative pushback from the US, which influences India’s anglophone elites very substantially, much more so than it influences China’s elites or even Vietnam’s. Does that matter? I don’t know.
Bangladesh beats India in per capita income
The neighbouring country claims average income at $2,227, higher than India’s $1,947 in FY21 and Pakistan’s $1,543.
Is secular nationalism more conducive to economic development than religious nationallism?
Question naturally arises why West Bengal does poorly inside India despite many decades of hyper-secular rule? Also, Bangladesh has seen a recent revival in religious fervor (though still much less intense than in Pakistan). But yes, with those quibbles aside, I agree that secularism and cultural moderation are essential ingredients to development. The true outlier was probably the USA in the early and mid-1900s, where the population was truly pious yet rich. Nevertheless, religion was never allowed to influence the political system even during Reagan.
It’s not really clear that Bangladesh is doing better than India. Nominal GDP does not measure wealth in any meaningful way if the exchange rate is not determined by the market forces. Bangladesh imposes huge taxes on imported consumer goods to control the trade deficit, and this makes the economy look much bigger than what it is when measured in terms of nominal dollars. If you look at the PPP figures, per capita income of Bangladesh is still marginally below West Bengal and 20 percent below India.
People are arguing between whose more successful.. 2200, 1900 or 1500 while the world is more like 8000-10000-15000.. and the developed world is 40,000 or 50,000.
This is like 3 retards stuck in a wheelchair arguing who is faster, while all our peers in Asia have left us far behind.
I agree somewhat. The current flavor (retard stuck in a wheelchair) of the town is now Bangladesh, which would have posted similar performance under a Khalida Zia regime. Maharastra has been India’s no1 economic state under a left wing Congress regime for long. Gujrat under Modi performed similar to how it used to during Congress regimes.
This whole idea of secular regimes being better is just hogwash.
Goa was not part of British India. It makes sense to compare the economic performance of the three successor states of British India. They started with similar socioeconomic conditions. More insights can be gained by analyzing the economic failures of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh than comparing India with China or South Korea which is tendency among Indian economists.
How about two successor cousins of British India? East and West Bengal.
West Bengal started as the economic power house and has been ruled by 3 secular parties for the last 70 years. East started as an economic laggard under Islamist rule till 70s and then 80s to mid 2000s under either Islamist dictatorship or Islamist parties.
Would you like to compare the economic development of these two regions? I think not….
You are right on a global stage all the south Asian countries are considered shitholes.
But the poorest large states in India like Bihar have higher HDI than Pakistani portion of the Punjab (which is the highest HDI large region in Pakistan).
Meanwhile Sri Lanka has higher HDI than almost all Indian states.
I consider Sri Lanka to be quite undeveloped as well.
Using per capita income to judge disparate countries (size, political systems, multi-ethnic) is totally the rookie way to go.
Bangladesh can do diddly squat other than produce banians and pantyhose. If Mr. Roy thinks that is the mark of greatness, then let him be. Also other people like Qureishi – stop acting like everyone is in the same bucket – I know it helps to cope.
I have posted it before – the real way is to look at economic complexity ECI.
India – ranked 42 (ECI 0.54)
Bangladesh – ranked 108 (ECI -0.88)
Pakistan – ranked 99 (ECI -0.68)
Sri Lanka – ranked 78 (ECI -0.36)
Iran – ranked 101 (ECI -0.71)
Bhutan, Nepal, Afghanistan, Burma – not even ranked.
You can see the difference in every facet of life – countries with supposedly higher HDI/per capita income – cannot produce a Corona vaccine, create a GPS satellite constellation or produce autopilot software.
//countries with supposedly higher HDI/per capita income – cannot produce a Corona vaccine//
…and yet we have countries that can produce corona vaccine and still have people dying on the streets everywhere in such huge numbers than they cannot even be cremated.
so ”stop acting like everyone is in the same bucket – I know it helps to cope”
You have a humanitarian distaster on hand, the worst in the world by far.. and you are claiming some sort of upper ground on that
Don’t teach ideological people, they will come up with “rhetoric and feelings”. I have tried that and all I got in response is ” you have no soul”. I am the Dark Lord now! Be that as it may, adding to your point, Bangladesh will go stagnant in few years when the market goes saturated and production stagnates, Bangladesh has no hedges in place and investment options like engineering goods etc which will make their income stagnated and no job prospects to improve income in future will produce social tensions and obviously communal rifts among the people which will result in another border crisis for India. Indians being stupid don’t do enough reading and Pakis don’t understand anything that is written from left to right comment and virtue signal on it.
So your entire argument about economic comparison suddenly shifted to pandemic handling? 🙂 Well, I have news for you…..Somalia has a lower Corona fatality rate than India, so Somalia has the better economy, right? Qureishi, step up and claim your Economics Nobel!
When @S Qureshi compares India with other SA countries, he does not take size into account. There are 2 Indias: One in gangetic plains — with per capita of $700 -800 — where 40-50% of India lives and remaining living in other parts whose per capita is around $4000-5000 and many times larger in size than Gangetic plains. The average becomes $2000.
Not all of South Asia is as shitty as Pakistan and Bangaldesh you know to the dismay of muppets.
If you consider half your country even shittier than the neighboring ‘enemy’ countries ”because GDP”, that’s just a sad state of affairs. LOL Who knew increasing female participation rate in formal economy increases the size of formal economy (a.k.a. GDP)? Your $4000 is pretty “shitty” too and nothing to brag about when rest of the world is way ahead.
Just have to say Omar bhai’s voice makes him sound younger than he is 😛
Bhimrao
3 years ago
Is it just me or do you guys also see that (rich) Indians seem to have skipped Sedans and are moving from Hatchbacks to Crossovers. So many puny ‘SUVs’ on Indian highways, where are the City, Corollas and Accords? I can think of:
1) Bad roads so high ground clearance.
2) Usual big SUV arms race for crash safety.
Because the entry level Maruti cars are so tiny, the miniature SUVs of India are actually the actual viable entry level cars. But still why not sedans? They handle better, are ‘cars’, save fuel. Or maybe the answer is that Indian crossovers are actually just fancy hatchbacks that rank below proper sedans. idk but too many Harriers, Cretas and S-cross on roads these days.
@bhimrao,
unfortunately our capitalists are also of the nakli or crony variety as are our socialists. our tatas/mahindras are at best good for repackaging foreign tech with “desi” stamp. Compare that koreans/japanese companies which used market protection and subsidies to capture eu and na markets.
I liked Tata Nexon and Harrier. Looked like well built cars, nothing like the Safari and Indigo of old.
What do you think about the Indian EV scene? Any chance for having our own Rivian, Xpeng, or Canoo? or will we have to make peace with secondshaadi.com founder/wannabe gurus (just joking I respect Warikoo) while the rest get their Zuckerberg and Jack Ma?
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Random musings:
1) So a residential land holding of my family has been disputed by a land-grab mafia run by the son of our local BJP Member of Parliament. My family was a ‘soft’ target with the sons and sons-in-law not living locally and minimal (immediate) muscle power. They have faked land records and on enquiring with the lekhpal (who is involved with the mafia) we were told that despite tall claims about geo-tagging and digitization of land records the Indian government happily makes two registries for the same plot of land. Now, in the best case scenario if the MP sees we are no pushovers we will have to pay the mafia somewhere around 5 Lakh INR as compensation for his ‘troubles’ and he will withdraw, in worst case there will be a court case that runs for 30 years, where the judges, lekhpal and all kinds of government ‘servants’ will have to tipped. In the worst of worst and highly unlikely scenario there could be bloodshed. Preliminary negotiations show that we will have to pay the BJP ahem ‘social workers’. This is why there will always be caste politics and we will always vote SP.
2) Something I have also been thinking about are the endless grocery stores in India. What a waste of time and effort ! Just like the one and a quarter of an acre farms.
3) Someone explained to me that Gujjus and Marathi export-import company people from 1980’s-1990’s onwards had figured out what amateurs like me still don’t see – that making stuff, managing industry is a big hassle especially in a place like India where everyone- the bank, politician, labor union, bureaucrat, police… is after your pocket, where utilities, land and infrastructure are non existent and the workforce is neither trained nor talented or motivated. Building stuff is somehow looked down in UP+Bihar… We can retrofit explanations like legacy of foreign rule turning us into clerks in India aspiring at best to be code-monkey or doctors in the US.
My family was a ‘soft’ target with the sons and sons-in-law not living locally and minimal (immediate) muscle power. They have faked land records and on enquiring with the lekhpal (who is involved with the mafia) we were told that despite tall claims about geo-tagging and digitization of land records the Indian government happily makes two registries for the same plot of land.
Now, in the best case scenario if the MP sees we are no pushovers we will have to pay the mafia somewhere around 5 Lakh INR as compensation for his ‘troubles’ and he will withdraw, in worst case there will be a court case that runs for 30 years, where the judges, lekhpal and all kinds of government ‘servants’ will have to tipped. In the worst of worst and highly unlikely scenario there could be bloodshed. Preliminary negotiations show that we will have to pay the BJP ahem ‘social workers’. This is why there will always be caste politics and we will always vote SP.
Reminds me of the old quote that “Indians don’t cast their vote but vote their caste”. I hope your family’s troubles get sorted out. Obviously even paying a bribe is outrageous for what is clearly a shakedown and blackmail attempt.
That is life in India. How do you think are the election rallies funded by 2-5 solid candidates in each constituency? There are no industries or big farms here, trade is in commodities, and salaried people don’t do politics. Everyone knows and accepts that the money comes from contractors and mafias.
To me Country>>>…>>>caste, therefore I keep harping against caste based reservation.
But in my heart I know being the losers we are, without elections(democracy) and reservations(casteism) Republic of India will cease to exist.
Similar ” Social Workers” are also doing excellent community service in our ancestral village. And caste politics is not a bad thing till it asks for violence! We all know there is a religious group pan India which votes in “bloc” with 90+ % voting on the day for a “particular” party. The only problem I have with caste politics is that division of votes happen and the “bloc”becomes the winner.
@bhimrao,
Dont know the specifics of those 2 tata models. But too little and too late in my view and most likely rub-off from the JLR acquisition. Every time I read “salt to software” conglomerate I roll over my eyes. In my view, India has adequate surplus and problem lies with elites. They just want to be local franchisee holders of some or the other super power. Not to say that masses are without blame.
I hope/think/wish that Indians like us realize that escape is no more an option with wokeness being used to drive away asians+indians from west. Hope things work out for your family re the land issue.
“I hope/think/wish that Indians like us realize that escape is no more an option with wokeness being used to drive away asians+indians from west.”
I think there is a even bigger wave of Indian emigrants coming, much larger than the one US has seen since early 2000s, I do not see this trend reversing. India doesn’t offer the same quality of life or company of gora people.
“Hope things work out for your family re the land issue.”
Like I said we are no pushovers.
Brown
3 years ago
1. is trump already looking better for americans?
2. can china be nailed for covid?
Arvind Panagariya has a lot of interesting things to say about Indian cars in his latest book. He contrasts India’s relative success in the auto parts sector with its dismal failure to create any global brands. In his view, it ultimately comes down to huge tariff barriers which impedes competition and essentially ensures a captive market for Indian carmakers which allows them to barely innovate and still get decent sales numbers.
By contrast, there are much lower tariffs on auto parts imports, which has forced the Indian ecosystem to be much more competitive and also gained a significant export share for some of these companies. Panagariya is a dyed-in-the-wool neoliberal, so his tonic would be wholesale liberalisation. But the South Korean experience showed that protective barriers can work to nourish “infant industries”. The problem for India is that these are no longer infants but overgrown adults in diapers. Another distinction is that the Koreans were very adamant about tying import barriers to export performance. If a firm wasn’t exporting, it ceased to get support. That is obviously not the case in India, where there is a cosy relationship between the car makers and the government of the day to continue to the status quo.
Your assessment of Panagriya’s view reflects my assessment. I would add one point. When the taxation of particular good is alter to provide it benefit relative to “global” competition, the government forgets that the same altered tax produces unstable taxation which encourages production and consumption of that particular good which in medium term degrades the economy and leads to further job losses. So far as I can tell, no “Indian” economist of fame has written a good book on Indian taxation and it’s problems comprehensively. Some have produced good work but they are incompatible when taken at fiscal policy level. GST is a monumental failure as implemented by this government which is supposed to improve tax collections. For ex:- the automobile entire supply chain when assessed proves beneficial ONLY to the assembly company but manufacturers of components are going bonkers because stupid 4 slab has put them in positive input tax credit nowhere to be utilised. Most of these components manufacturers are SMEs. Since these industries have very low margins they have increased rate to compensate the tax credit which ultimately led to increase in auto components imports. AtmaNirbhar bharat my ass!
Narasingha Deva
3 years ago
To break free from Beijing’s chokehold on solar manufacturing, India should act like China
Pakistanis are talented and creative at extracting money, in a petty, dodgy sort of way. Let us wait and see what becomes of China or what China makes of Pakistan.
I am sure some PhD in made-up-economics would be behind this BS at WB/IMF, but still free money is free money.
Since the discussion thread on “Steppe vs. AASI dick measuring” (see the comments following Razib’s archived “Lakshmi” post, May 16, 2021) ended with the nice compliment “Francesco is a moron”, let me use this Open Thread to show you how my contentions in that discussion are even supported by a five centuries-old, Kāmasūtra-based Indian text and a medical report dating from the close of the nineteenth century.
From the Anaṅga Raṅga, an Indian sex manual written by Kalyāna Malla in the 15th or 16th century, translated by Sir Richard F. Burton (1885) at https://www.sacred-texts.com/sex/ar/ar05.htm :
1) śaśa, or the hare-man, “is known by a liṅga which in erection does not exceed 6 [aṅgulas], or about 3 inches;”
2) vṛṣabha, or the bull-man, “is known by a liṅga of 9 [aṅgulas] in length, or 4.5 inches;”
3) aśva, or the horse-man, “is known by a liṅga of 12 [aṅgulas], or about 6 inches long.”
An aṅgula (see at https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/angula ) is an ancient Indian unit of measurement defined as being “equal to a finger’s breadth.” Although its conversion to inches is somewhat problematic, two of the most often cited conversions proposed by scholars are the following:
Stuart Piggott: 1 aṅgula = 0.5 inches (coinciding with the measurement proposed by Burton, see above)
Axel Michaels: 1 aṅgula = 0.63 inches
Thus, the “horse-man” penile length (the top one known in India according to the Anaṅga Raṅga) is remarkable only if one takes Michaels’ measurement of the aṅgula as the basis; it is NOT AT ALL remarkable (in worldwide standards) if one takes Piggott’s and Burton’s measurements as the basis.
Moreover, I found the following medical observations in an old anthropological/sexological book written by a surgeon who was undoubtedly a thorough racist, but whose penis measurements on Indian patients, which he compares with those described in the Anaṅga Raṅga (see above), I have no reason to doubt (N:B: He also “measured” Arabs, Blacks, etc. with very different results). Here it is:
“The average size [of the penis of Hindu men in Guyana] appeared to me to be about 5 inches long […]. Many are from 3.5 to 4 inches […]. Few are from 5.5 to 6 inches, which is nearly the European average, and which here appears to be the maximum. […] The result of my personal observations is, that the great bulk of the Hindoo coolies may be classed as ‘men-hares’, only a small number are ‘men-bulls’, and a smaller number still ‘men-stallions’.”
Again, the maximum penile length of the Indians as recorded by “Dr. Jacobus X” coincides with that inferred for the Anaṅga Raṅga’s “horse-man” by Burton (see above).
Show me a quality peer reviewed study from the modern literature. Citing old racist anthropology texts is dumb. Don’t waste my time.
I cited the highest standard of data. You have no good response. You cited trash much like yourself. Good job. Your confirmation bias shows over and over. I am done addressing you and your penile obsession. You are grasping on straws, as expected.
The nature study you quoted is not drawn from the general population, it is drawn from participants who were actively sought sexual dysfunction treatment.. so that’s a big qualifier.. besides, average of 13 cm is nothing to brag about, it’s 5 inches erect. Since Kerala is one of the tallest states in India and penile length positively correlates with height, you can plausibly assume most other states don’t even hit the 5 inch mark when it comes to ‘dick measuring’.
I’m all for equality of human race and what not but refusing to accept biological diversity in different groups of people is just some leftist bullshit.
@Q
“The nature study you quoted is not drawn from the general population, it is drawn from participants who were actively sought sexual dysfunction treatment.. so that’s a big qualifier.. ”
I am not really sure what your argument is here. If anything, the erections might be weaker and this could be underestimate.
“The average of fully stretched penile length in normal potent men is 12.9 cm, whereas the patients with ED tend to have significantly shorter penises (11.2 +/- 1.5 cm).”
Here is what the data show ^. Impotent men had lower on average fully stretched penis length. And fully stretched penis length is correlated w/ erect length. So selecting this population actually might be low balling things.
“besides, average of 13 cm is nothing to brag about, it’s 5 inches erect.”
Indian penis size is slightly more, though not significantly so in the US study cited and significantly more than the Jordanian study mean. The Israeli average was only .5 cm more but significant. What exactly is your conclusion here? The US is a developed nation, yet averages range from 5.1-5.4in in most studies, with most around a 5.25inches. This one had these keralite men at a mean of 5.15 inches, so even if you compare to a broader number, this is well within regular range. Also, most US literature is heavily biased towards white male overrepresentation in the study.
No one is arguing Indians have huge penises. That was never the contention. The contention is that there is a lot of biased nonsense that circulates around.
The contention specifically by Franciso was that I am displaying some sort of “penis envy” about the fact that steppe men had bigger dicks supposedly. He provides 0 evidence for this. He has no hard evidence that AASI makes penises smaller. You have to have actual data. Also IVC people ranged 0-50% AASI and were 50% mesolithic iran HG related. That latter aspect is actually a greater portion of Indian ancestry in most than even AASI is. Regardless, absolutely none of this is taken into account. He than makes conflation of steppe ancestry back than with modern day Eastern Euro one. He provides no strong evidence in either direction.
“Since Kerala is one of the tallest states in India and penile length positively correlates with height, you can plausibly assume most other states don’t even hit the 5 inch mark when it comes to ‘dick measuring’.”
Here is the contention again that is quite flawed. First of all, penis length and height correlation intrapopulation has not been proven. Within the same population, there is a correlation but it is weak. Look up the nature study in turkish populations. They legit say “weak” correlation in the abstract.
And Kerela is one of the tallest states because it is well fed. It is almost among the more AASI ones. Punjab is similar average height and one of the more steppe ones. Nutrition is correlated with height. These places don’t even have optimal nutrition compared to the West. So even if we bought into your height penis length correlation paradigm as perfectly applicable, if anything, penis sizes are underestimated in S Asia. Do we have data that the non -steppe people had worse nutrition than the steppe ones?
Finally, Franciso’s contention is that AASI women were pleasured by larger Steppe penises. Do we know the nutritional status of both groups. Do we know which ones have larger penises? Actually looking at the data we have, we can’t conclude that. The data actually show an AASI heavy population, something you can really stretch as a very loose proxy for the “natives.” and a Euro heavy proxy like most American samples, something you use as an ultra loose proxy for “steppe,” are doing quite similarly, despite worse nutrition in the prior. In the end, the conclusion drawn does not support Franciso’s wacky hypothesis, even with the quite limited data we have.
I know he bragged earlier about looking up Eastern Euro and Andamese dick pics and then went to old racist anthro journals, but despite all of his weird racial fetishes and fascination with looking at penises, the data just don’t support his point.
“I’m all for equality of human race and what not but refusing to accept biological diversity in different groups of people is just some leftist bullshit.”
I accept biological diversity. When there are facts stating that blacks have more ACTN homozygosity and that is linked positively with sprinting performance because of fast twitch fiber performance downstream effect, I accept it because there is hard data on it. Just like there is hard data on Dutch men or men from the dinaric alps being the tallest.
When there is no data about something and it is all just nonsensical suppositions based on various confirmation biases of what the person wants reality to be rather than what any evidence shows, one cannot make the types of conclusions Franciso is making. It is clear that he starts with a premise and then goes about finding anything and everything that backs up, regardless of bias, methodology, quality, or applicability of the source.
Do not straw man. I do not doubt biological diversity for physical traits between groups. But there has to be clear evidence for it. If anything, the only good data we have points against the assumptions that Franciso has. There is no “leftist BS” present here. If anything, your logical fallacy is the closest to it.
This is a British Study over 15,000 men. Average size was 13.12 cm erect, quite similar to Kerela study. Britain is over 90% white and developed. Again, this contradicts even the racist anthro text you posted and its wild claims. Real data does not back up what you think.
Even if we were to look into your trash cited source,
The guy looked at mens genital length and guessed. He straight up admits it. He had no sample size. No methodology. Nothing. He just says this stuff off of observation. How many did he see? How did he measure them? All of this is unanswered. He also makes some weird claims like Indian men are very hard with their erections but black men have weaker ones. Did you see that part on the next page? The guy is making all sorts of nonsensical claims.
Also, you didn’t get that penis length stuff from an independent source for the ancient indian text. The measurements are given in finger dimensions not inches. And the racist author you cited extrapolates based on finger dimensions he doesn’t even measure but estimates and only extrapolates.
^Even a study on misconceptions of penis size average in the West. Looks like they have the same misconceptions of an average of 5.5-6inches in the West, with most studies showing averages in 5.1-5.5 inch range. The same nonsense you pushed. Data doesn’t show that. All the conclusions keep showing over and over again is that you are full of nonsense.
You don’t know how to read modern scientific literature. You stick to what every quality dribble supports your confirmation biases you are a clown of the highest order.
“belief is due, in part, to several often-cited studies that relied on self-reported measurements, with means of about 6.2 inches (15.75 cm) for heterosexual men and even greater for gay men. These studies suffered from both volunteer bias and social desirability bias. In this review, the combined mean for 10 studies in which researchers took measurements of erect penises was 5.36 inches (13.61 cm; n = 1,629). For 21 studies in which researchers measured stretched penises, the mean was approximately 5.11 inches (12.98 cm; n = 13,719).”
I use real data to back up my conclusions. No racialist 18th century hate novels.
You are being completely dishonest here when you quote that British study about 15000 participants..
The stretched length has n = 14 160, with a mean of 13.24 cm. (even greater than the erect length). The erect length has only n=691
And if you compare the stretched length with the Kerala study – that one showed 10.88cm for India.
The stretched length is actually a better indication of maximum penis size because not all erections are full erections.
You copy pasting whatever study you find on google and cherry picking data that confirms your POV does not help. There is a serious lack of data on ”erect penis size” because its hard to measure and there are simply not enough studies to provide data because this could race controversies.
The whole discussion is stupid, but obviously you give in to the race baiting because you feel this is some point of insecurity. Why do such race remarks not work the other way round and don’t have the desired effect? You know the answer.
We discussed mean erect length data. The methodology for that is reported throughout. It is clear that by that data the kerela data is not statistically significantly different from the mean length in the UK and US studies cited. I cited multiple data sets. You cannot refute that. There is plenty of literature on mean erect length. I just cited a fraction of it.
“Stretched penis data is more accurate.” You have 0 basis for the statement that is true about anything. There is correlation between stretched length and erectile length in some groups. That is all. And if you actually sat at read the methodology of most of these studies, they throughout the data points for the men who could not obtain proper erections. So your whole “not full erection” point is a non sequitur. You are the one who is cherry picking.
Just because you cannot fathom the thought of a group having similar mean erect penis length as another because you want to validate points in another direction, does not mean it makes your reality true.
I give evidence from modern studies for my perspective. Peer reviewed ones with methodology clearly stated.
I am refuting the nonsensical claims that I see all over the place. That is all I am doing. I am not baited by anything other than setting the record straight and showing what conclusions actually have evidence. All of the nonsensical race stuff, including the racial looks hierarchies you pedal, fall into the same camp.
If you want to believe that Indians have small dicks, in terms of mean erect length, compared to other groups, despite the actual published data showing the contrary, go right ahead. That’s on you.
There is no way an angula is half an inch. 2/3-3/4th of an inch (or 17-19 mm) is consistent across ancient cultures for digit measurements (and my own finger width is ~0.75 inches).
You could argue that Indians had much smaller fingers than literally every other civilization, but we also know that forearm length hasti was 24 angula (same as pretty much every other civilization), so a value of 0.5 inches for the angula would have required Indians to be dwarves (and magically grown by the time the British and Dutch came along and could observe that the hasti was normal sized at 42-47 cm across India and Indonesia: https://archive.org/details/bub_gb_zkErAAAAYAAJ/page/n25/mode/2uphttps://archive.org/details/bub_gb_zkErAAAAYAAJ/page/n27/mode/2up).
Indian nationalists feel that Twitter is putting its thumbs on the scale to favour the liberal forces. I don’t think they are wrong. But Modi thus far has shown little spine in taking on the US hegemonic outposts, of which Twitter is one. Most of what he’s done is theatrics, at least so far.
It wasn’t even a raid. And the biggest beneficiary of twitter is “the bearded man” himself. He will not do anything to Twitter. As you pointed out, it’s all theatrics. “The bearded man” cares more about the white man’s validation than the leftists in India. Nationalists are furious at ” the Grand old man” for being full on Jaina muni when Bengal happened, Delhi riots happened and now corona 2nd wave.
Bhimrao
3 years ago
On dead bodies in Ganga,
1) It is nothing new, obviously a lot of people are dying but the water burial happen all the time, it is not due to poverty.
2) Many Hindus do not cremate their dead. There is a prominent Thakur family that I know who do not cremate their dead but do some nominal ritual with a burning cow dung cake and then dispose(?) off the body in Ganga.
3) The most common variation is that the dead bodies of children are always buried instead of cremated, in the case of the bodies in shallow sand graves along Ganga in Prayagraj there is a regional practice there that involves burying in case of untimely death, also in case of death due to leprosy there is burial not cremation irrespective of caste or standing.
4) The only variation I have personally seen is burning with cow dung cakes instead of wood. It takes forever (approximately 6+ hours compared to 2-3 hours with dry Mango wood) to do it and is popular around Jhansi. The reasoning given for the origin of this tradition is the lack of good wood as the region mostly has Babool trees and people believe that cremating with Babool condemns the soul to become a prait(ghost?).
Francesco Brighenti
3 years ago
@S Qureishi, @thewarlock
Thank you, Qureishi, for understanding what I am pointing out – kind of a “Sad Truth” if you want to call it so.
I see nobody has picked up on my quote from the Anaṅga Raṅga, which is, after all, an important indigenous treatise about love & sex in the marriage relation elaborating on the Kāmasūtra attributed to Vātsyāyana (composed one thousand years before it), and cannot certainly be accused of “racist Western bias” – as if the racist French surgeon styling himself as “Jacobus X”, who measured the penile size of many Indians, Arabs, Black Africans, etc. in the late-nineteenth century, were to be accused of delighting, for unknown reasons, in deliberately lying to his Western readers about the smaller size of the average Indian erect penis compared to that of the average European, Arab, and Black African erect penises respectively. Does thewarlock interpret this as “racist anti-Indian bias”? Why did “Jacobus X” not show the same bias toward the Arabs and Black Africans, whom he despises and insults in his book far more than the Indians? I think that even a racist colonial doctor could measure penises scientifically without any bias. But evidently someone here interprets this “Sad Truth” as “Hindu-baiting”, à la Sangh Parivar! Has nowadays dick size become a matter of “national pride” versus “national shame” in Bhārata, and is any attempt to point out this obvious kind of genetic diversity between Indians and Europeans doomed to be declared a threat to national self-esteem? (N.B. Mind that there are some “Pakistani enemies” – or perhaps Indian Muslims, I don’t know – who are currently mocking Hindus on the Internet because of the latter’s “chota Arya-linga”, or perceived one! See, e.g., at https://www.urbandictionary.com/author.php?author=Moollah_Do_Pyaza .)
You are right, Qureishi: average of 13 cm as recorded in the 2007 Kerala medical study idolized by thewarlock is nothing to brag about! That’s why I have tried to understand, out of scientific and personal curiosity, what the Kāmasūtra’s classical distinction between “hare-dick”, “bull-dick”, and “horse-dick” really means in comparative terms. The Kāmasūtra does unfortunately not provide any dick measurements, but the much later Anaṅga Raṅga by Kalyāna Malla does and, as I have mentioned in my earlier comment in this Open Thread, it states that the topmost Indian liṅga (the “horse-dick”) measures 12 aṅgulas, or about 6 inches according to its translator Sir Richard Burton. In worldwide standards, that’s really not much to brag about as if it were a “giant dick”, believe me… It would do better if an aṅgula corresponded to 1.6 cm as proposed by other scolars… But that question has not been settled… yet.
Show actual scientific literature. There are no methodologies or sample sizes. There is no peer review. Am I supposed to just trust the word of some racist dude from the 18th century who is ranting about what he perceives to be dick size differences based on his inspection of random people? Just listen to yourself dude.
You are the one fishing for random shit from even the most pathetic of sources to back up your view point. Seriously man, man I am still questioning your fascination with old racist texts, indian sex manuals, and searching for a posting andamese dick pics. You have a real penchant for the latter.
Honestly, all I am doing is addressing the weird lies that Francisco comes up with and the odd bandwagoning Qureshi does about any intraracial discussions, probably stemming from his annoyance that I thoroughly steamrolled him in his weird “objective racial looks” hierarchy discussion, but again that’s just a theory.
I’m not the one posting racist anthropology texts and making weird extrapolations from ancient Indian sex manuals. And I sure as hell am not the one bragging about going through eastern euro and andamaese dick pics and then posting 5 of the latter.
Discussion starter for my fellow punditers
Have we already passed Pax Americana?
Did we even have a Pax Americana? John Mearsheimer has forcefully argued that when the US became the sole superpower in the 1990s, it became more aggressive and unhinged when there was no counter-vailing force. People forget that sanctions on Iraq in the 1990s killed 500,000 people, and they were targeting the civilian population. To go down the list of all the crimes committed by the US empire would take us all day.
I suppose I just reject the premise of there even being peace by the US to begin with. As for the staying power of the US, I wrote about that in the last OT. The TL;DR version is that China will likely be able to carve out a space in the ASEAN region but not much beyond it. The US has an enormous puppet network that China or any other country simply lacks. Even India is becoming more submissive to US diktat, which is the opposite of what you’d expect from a country that was supposedly rising.
@principia
First, Pax Americana in the global sense truly began with the end of the WWII (the US was always economically and militarily superior to the USSR, and Soviets knew this well), so one should take into consideration the situation of the world since 1946 rather than 1990 when assessing Pax Americana. Second, every pax is relative and is defined with respect to what came before and after (assuming there is an after). The world since 1946 is certainly considerably peaceful politically and militarily compared to the earlier part of the 20th century. This is in fact the most peaceful period of the known world history, more peaceful on a global or even Eurasian scale than even the times of Pax Romana and Pax Mongolica. The US surely has lots of things to criticize and I am no US sympathizer (I am a critic of the US on many issues in fact), but its contribution to world peace has been immensely greater than its harm to it in total.
Is the idea even really a Pax Americana to begin with? We are the anchor along with the white Anglosphere and then the larger EU economies. There is a division of labor where the US spends about 2x the share of its GDP more on defense than the UK and France in this global security arrangement, but they possess enough technological competence to surge capacity effectively in anticipation of a deteriorating environment. My take is that nation-states don’t circumscribe political interest groups neatly in the west. From the distance of Asia or Africa, the US, Canada, Aus and UK are best considered one nation
The better question:
Have we passed Bellum Americanum?
@sbarrkum
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx8gwNbCPVo
Unscrambling diabolical conspiracy, deceit & brutality behind Rajiv Gandhi’s assassination 30 yrs on
“Clubhouse is open on Android.”
Not quite ready for prime time. I had to close it and restart it several times because it would just stop.
The FM of Pakistan spoke frankly of the Israel lobby on US media, while being interviewed by a Jewish journalist. You might imagine how well that went down.
He’s not wrong in his statements, but he’s acting like a bull in a China shop. Still pretty funny.
That’s an incredibly low bar for anti-semitism, glad he didn’t back down.
Historically the world had an incredibly low bar for what constituted fair treatment of Jews.
A very specific part of the world, europe, that wasn’t tolerant of muslims either. Lord knows what they’d have made of hindus.
https://mobile.twitter.com/SuvenduWB/status/1395639111273254914
Bengal violence continues. Disgusting radical leftist goons
https://www.google.com/amp/s/wap.business-standard.com/article-amp/current-affairs/india-remains-greatest-rising-power-despite-covid-19-tragedy-report-121052200135_1.html
India remains greatest rising power despite Covid-19 tragedy: Report
In the thread on India’s agricultural hearths, someone mentioned the dispersal of African crops into India. This article places the dispersal’s origins in Sudan: https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/10061925/
The Meroitic god Apedemak is leontocephaline and possesses four-arms, and wouldn’t be out of place in India. There’s also a relief of him as a lion-headed serpent emerging from a lotus, but that imagery far-off from the iconography of Hellenistic Egyptian deities. Still, there are tantalizing connections between the Sudan and India. Both countries are also the sites of the earliest cultivation of cotton: https://journals.openedition.org/ethnoecologie/4429
https://m.economictimes.com/markets/stocks/earnings/indias-profit-to-gdp-hits-4-year-high-but-best-is-yet-to-come/amp_articleshow/82832815.cms
India’s profit-to-GDP hits 4-year high, but best is yet to come
K shaped recovery
https://www.hindustantimes.com/business/govt-considering-support-measures-for-msme-sector-101621561176780-amp.html
Govt considering support measures for MSME sector
Anand Sridharan, an investor at Nalanda Capital, has written a scintillating substack on the Indian vaccine makers who are quietly transforming the fight against Covid.
https://buggyhuman.substack.com/p/makers-keepers-what-can-we-learn
Excerpt
We’re lucky to have Serum Institute and Bharat Biotech.
Western vaccine triopoly retained ~90% of vaccines for home use. Outside of a few tiny countries, each slightly larger than Andheri, Big-3 made no difference to any country’s vaccination program. In no scenario could they have made a difference to India’s. Our only option in H1 of 2021 (and beyond) is to have our own Aatmanirbhar, global-scale, credible vaccine manufacturers.
While I have always thought highly of Serum Institute, I didn’t realize how high they were in global pecking order until I studied Western peers. Serum is World’s #2 covid-vaccine producer. Serum makes as many vaccines out of Pune as Pfizer does out of its US site in Kalamazoo. Serum has achieved >2x scale of its parent AstraZeneca, while selling vaccines at half the price. That AstraZeneca is struggling to meet even a third of its commitment to EU (300M doses in H1) indicates how non-trivial Serum’s achievement is. Serum has sold >200M vaccines to India at $2/dose and will sell even more at $4/dose. Thanks to Serum, India can buy over half a billion doses at a price lower than Moderna’s material cost. Serum has exported 3x more vaccines to developing countries than Big-3 combined (>60M vs 20M). As it scales from 70M doses/month to 100M doses/month, Serum will maintain its World #2 status.
Since I have focused on Q1, I spoke more of Serum than Bharat Biotech. However, Bharat Biotech is equally commendable. Their May production run-rate (30M/month) nearly matches AstraZeneca’s and is 3-months behind Moderna’s ramp-up. At 70M doses/month, they’ll match Moderna in a few months. That they did it without an MNC collaborator makes it even more creditable. To have two Indian companies amidst global top-5 in a highly-specialized niche is a phenomenal achievement (and blessing).
….This is as good as it can get, amidst a global pandemic. Thank you, Bharat Ratnas.
@Vikram, @Bhimrao….take note.
As a member of Capitalist Party of India, I have always had only admiration for these folks. I would have conferred Bharat Ratna on them.
I am disappointed with the usual suspects: Indian people, what a bunch of pot-bellied, low-IQ retards and the Federal and State governments. Modi and his ministers abdicated responsibility, lied and expectedly shat in their pants when facing a real challenge and tens of thousands of my people are dying everyday. The pandemic has decisively proven (to me) that India will remain a shit-hole for decades to come and that hurts.
LoL man – cynicism is a low risk, low budget activity. You would have expressed the same opinion if no Indian vaccines were researched and produced.
Too many people are dying man, it is hard to be optimistic.
I remember sparring with another commenter offended by me calling Poonawala a ‘dev-purush’, ‘God’ or some other honorific. I really respect and appreciate these heroes. Without them we would be Africa.
don’t want to sound too glib, but a certain perspective/big picture thinking is needed if a region/people are to be sovereign. The entire Grant Trunk Road Belt seems to swing wildly and change courses just like some rivers. Change comes by incrementally, not 1 step forward and 2 steps back. Socialism/Capitalism are means not the end. People seem more wedded to Krantikari or RightWing economic ideas.
@bhumiputra
Good luck changing that mentality (which is celebrated) and good luck fending it off from taking over every other region of the country. In exchange we will learn real hindu asabiyah with mehndi covered hands and ghungat, lol
Yes, barring major mutations, the fact that we have a decent pharma manufacturing industry should help us overcome the pandemic by the end of 2021. I think the point I was making was alluded to in another one of Sridharan’s posts, https://buggyhuman.substack.com/p/vaccicorns-an-improbable-rescue-mission.
My question was why do we have not more vaccine candidates from India ? Sridharan says that there is insufficient support from the government. This is correct, but not the root cause.
If you look at the journals where the inventors of M-RNA techniques publish (Journal of Biological Chemistry for example), you will see that publications from India are outnumbered by publications from the US by a 20 to 1 ratio. Of course, the US is much richer, but we can do better. The US simply has more manpower in this aspect than we do.
There are other vaccine candidates from India. The Bharat Biotech one was just the first to get approved and pass phase 3 trials and go into production.
@Razib
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?width=1200&height=1200&quality=85&auto=format&fit=crop&s=2def95e0254d71717c3f562b011d18b3
Why do many Indians have very African/Black facial features?
http://arjunmark.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/THE_MAN_Hardik-16-10-17_shot116178.jpg
Has there been any recent African gene flow in India which has been overlooked?
Except Afro hair, Indian populations have all range of colours, some as black as African. Actually the quesion is wrong. Africans don’t have a monopoly or copyright on skin colour or height or anything. So you have similar features in other parts of the world. Geneticist posit a type called Ancient Ancestral South Indian which is related to Andamanese and Nicobarese paleolithic tribes. These tribes have remained unmixed for 50000 years and part of the very early migrations out of Africa .This so called AASI is thought to be major component across all Indian , and Pakistani/Bangladeshi populations , more so in the south India. Google for these tribes
having said that , some, perhaps few thousand Africans were brought to India in the last 500 years as part of Arab slave trade and they are integrated in Indian society
I am talking about facial features, not skin colour. You also personally have very African features.
What is the big deal about it. Different features are distributed across the world and across Africa also different features are distributed. Egyptian or Algerian have different features than Koisaan or Soth African or bantu or Nilotic. Variation and multiplicity of features across the world is the default condition and should not surprise anyone informed
Time to get Curwen on BP podcast:
Razib on Twitter:
it’s the kali yuga and cowardice reigns supreme
friend shall denounce friend
child shall turn out parent
but the day will come when the maryannu will say no more. wait for that day. for where the evil burns they shall rush, meeting the darkness with fire
Curwen on his blog:
https://aryaakasha.com/2021/05/22/khans-maryannu-invocation
For context, this man is a prominent geneticist frequently commenting on matters pertaining to our field. The ‘Maryannu’ he references here are a rather intriguing group spoken of in the ancient Near East, that appear to have constituted chariot-borne warriors. Indo-European chariot-borne warriors, based around the speculated etymological link of “Maryannu” to Sanskrit मर्य [‘Marya’] – a term which connoted young men, eager for glory.
The supposition is that, in line with very recent advancements in archaeology and archaeogenetics, the spread of these ‘Maryannu’ and their revolutionary chariot-borne warfare approach was an expansion of the Indo-Iranian, and more specifically Indo-Aryan clades coming down and heading *west* through the Near East. If you have read about the intriguing either Indo-Aryan or Sanskrit superstrate of Mitanni (an otherwise theoretically non-IE-base population that mysteriously seems to wind up with a ruling class speaking Indo-Aryan, utilizing Indo-Aryan deifics in their state religion, and employing horse-trainers that appear to have been quite directly linked to the Indo-Aryan civilization found further East … in fact with the entire confederacy built around such a corps) …
Well, the Maryannu are those guys, we suspect.
Khan is, of course, memeing quite hard about this. Yet all the best memes – they endure, precisely because they maintain an essence of truth.
I have often mentioned how disappointed I am in Asian-American activism (or lack thereof). There are plenty of AA activists, but they tend to be involved in generic political causes. But pan-Asian activism has been too splintered and weak-sauce. Until now?
https://twitter.com/lisahopeking/status/1395477096118554630
A single Asian advocacy organisation raised 1 *billion* USD to raise awareness against the recent wave of hatecrimes. Their CEO is South Asian, which is a good sign (no segregation between yellow/brown folks). I hope this momentum will not fade once/when things calm down.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/26-old-stanford-grad-student-173518915.html
Great work!
https://www.opindia.com/2021/05/punjab-sarpanch-husband-arrested-prayer-gurudwara-pm-modi-long-life-wishing-for-a-dalit-cm/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Wow. Just wow
is the new dmk govt. walking into a trap set by bjp et al, by taking on jaggi and temples issue. they had lots of work to do and this is a useless excercise.
The real Dravidian party cant fight the urge of demolishing Hinduism in his backyard for long. So there is that
jews are really lucky people. they have got an entire “ism” invented for those who dare to criticize them.
i mean, if you criticize some other nation, say the british, you won’t be accused of “antibritishism” and sent on a guilt trip. nor will someone lay the blame of “antisinicism” on you for questioning china’s actions. but say one word against israel, and one will instantly be accused of antisemitism , which in turn means you will be branded a low-life racist by the liberal media, and you will not be considered fit enough to be in polite company.
i am no holocaust denier or anything like that. i am far too well read for that kind of BS. but i do feel jews have mastered the art of playing the victim to the level of perfection.
one would have thought that the traumatic experience of holocaust would make them more emphatic to other people’s plight. in reality it has made them exactly the opposite. they have turned into a deeply immoral and unscrupulous people.
it is funny to see such a puny nation showing imperialistic airs. i mean, however much land they grab, they will not even become the size of an average european country like spain or france. so what is even the point of all that.
a few extra sq miles won’t give them any security. israelis know very well that their ultimate security lies in america. but they go about pretending as if evicting more and more palestinian from their homes in jerusalem is an existential necessity. just wtf.
.
People like FM Qureshi (and most people) are coping by trying to get into Anti-semitism debate. It is not taboos against anti-semitism that is protecting Israel from Jihad.
Regular ass-whooping does demoralize weaker adversaries, gives them more things to worry about. Look at how Indian Politicians speak so carefully about the Chinese now, not so long ago Mota Bhai was claiming Aksai Chin in the Lok Sabha. One tight slap and aukaat yaad dila di. All terrorist attacks have stopped post Balakot surgical strikes, so escalating violence does seem to work.
Not that your (or my) opinions matter, imagine what Arabs would have done to Israelis if the tables were turned. See what Azeris did to Armenians.
There is a massive difference in expectations from say Saudi Arabia (in Yemen) vs Israel simply because people think Israel can be forced into listening while Saudis are truly irredeemable.
Israel is probably the only state in the world that is getting less and less accepted in the world as time passes by. A UN vote in 1947 mandated creation of Israel, a similar vote held today would not guarantee the same result. Israel is not the USA, it’s ability to inflict violence (usually on the hostage population within its control) does not deter its foes. That should signal that violence in of itself is useless if you cannot make your foes accept your dominance. The US is pulling a lot of strings to make Israel viable, from providing it billions of dollars in aid, bribing Arab dictators to maintain peace with Israel, or by manipulating the media narrative, to favor it and provide favorable trading links, tech sharing etc etc. Without the US, Israel would not be able to exist in peace for long unless they actually make peace with neighbors. They don’t have the ability to conquer and subjugate the entire Arab world.
Like I said earlier idk the details about what is going on. I do not consider this a top-tier conflict in the league of Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan or even Libya. It is actually even less significant than Armenia or Myanmmar (in humanitarian terms). Muslim countries make noises as targeting Israel is convenient.
I saw the Al-Aqsa police video, the police were just doing their job, they could not have been more humane. But Palestinians being Muslims tried to hoodwink the world into making it look like some terrible atrocity when it was lame compared to even Indian police lathi-charges.
You already know it is not American bribes that stops Arab dictator, Iranian clerics or Pakistani generals from making war. It is the very real prospect of a crushing defeat or worse getting nuked. None of these guys are paragons of peace or restraint. If they had even a slight chance they would have taken it. They just know they will lose.
\A UN vote in 1947 mandated creation of Israel,\
Creation of Isreal did not come about by any UN resolutionj in 47. After WW1 , Ottomons collapsed and palestine , former province of Ottomons was put under UN mandate and the British were the administrators. The UN mandate ended in September 47 and there was vacuam of soveriegnty or jurisdiction as Arab parties rejected UN plans for partition. Palestine become No man’s land, so to say . In stepped Ben Gurion and the Jewish party who seized control when the mandate ended and proclaimed the state of Israel.
That was quick action by Ben Gurion. Stalin thought Israel is a slap in the face of western countries, so USSR was the first country to recognise Israel. It took few years before the US warmed o Israel. Israel has deftly played international politics, not to speak of creation of a modern state. Israel has a resiliency which is not dependent upon US or other external support, not that it’s external support is about to diminish. Over years it has gained acceptance among most countries except some Muslim countries. I don’t think any non Muslim countries are yet to recognise Israel. It’s immediate bigger Arab countries Jordon, Egypt have recognised it.
You have got everything backwards. There is no specific proximate relation to the property of “Jewishness” that causes the West or other entities to support them.
Israel, Pakistan, KSA, UAE – these were all entities that were created as the West retreated from Asia. Just look at the borders of Syria-Iraq, Iraq-KSA or Israel-Egypt – straight lines. Many of these entities have no naturally occurring paradigms. Some of them have an ethnic and cultural affinity – like Israel which causes territory building.
Now, take KSA, it shouldn’t exist. They have been existing only as a part of other empires in the last 800 years. Only with the great assistance of the British, they were able to throw off the Ottoman shackles and become an independent entity. But once they formed, they created a back-history to fill the gaps. Exactly like Israel.
No state in the Middle East – apart from the Egyptians, Iranians or the Iraqis have any civilizational currency from the Bronze Age. They are all fiat states.
I will give you another clue – the West never supports or subsidizes the civilization states – Iraq, Iran, Eqypt. Its only the fiat states which have deep military and economic links with the West – KSA, Israel, Jordan etc.
@ugra
I’m sure there are exceptions, and one can argue Egypt gets support or whatever, but very interesting point to explore further. What’s the initial hypothesis as to why this may be? Is it that the post-imperial west has no way of engaging meaningfully with populism? Its always fishing for an oligarchy or comprador class to work with. Its sort of why the US has never warmed up to India. Too unpredictable. Will the country even last they used to ask in the 50/60s The key people keep on changing, and they aren’t really products of *our* institutions. ect. With Pakistan you know which relationships matter. I’ve noticed in the state department circles in DC, they are always hanging around the diplomats of quasi failed states, because that’s the opportunity.
@girmit
Its mostly geopolitics that creates the value or, the lack of it, in an entity. By its very nature – a newly created state with artificial boundaries – seeks external allies to sustain its integrity. It’s vulnerability is useful in forming friendships. Therefore by creating an artifical state – you can seek to influence the newly formed elites of that group. In that sense – Israel – has a double vulnerability – new state and the elites are just one generation away from a European or a Russian ancestor.
Talk to any Egyptian or an Iranian – the Muslim wrapper is just from yesterday’s dinner – they will exhibit modes of thinking that aren’t attuned to the exigencies of today’s politics. They were here since ages immemorial – and they aren’t easily slotted into mental pens.
In this sense – Pakistanis and Israelis are exactly the same. Their entire philosophical sojourns extends only to existential questions. They are easily persuaded into camps (whatever they may be).
Tolkien’s fantasy incorporates all elements of this civilizational aspect – the Elves are here since forever (I was there 3000 years ago meme), the Dwarves are invested in the loss of their historical habitat under Moria while the Orcs do not have any institutional memory. The Dwarves and Elves don’t like each other – they retain all the memories of ancient fights (territorial and kingly). They refuse to ally for any cause and go their own ways.
What? Egypt, Iran (pre 1979) Turkey before Erdogan.. all are/were Western allies.
@S Quereshi
The West did try to establish relations – only the artificial states (KSA, Jordan, Israel, Pakistan) have managed to hold on and make these ties flourish. They need the West far more than the civilizational states. Survival is a powerful motivation.
The civilization-states have retained the memory of standing on their own feet. Japan is an exception here – but Japan has been the only country to get nuked twice.
I see your logic but it really does not translate to ground realities. China went full on communist wiping out its history, India is running on British political and judicial system, Egypt is a puppet dictatorship, Iraq is a foreign playground.. Only Iran seems to be really be independent of the West. This civilization-al continuity is just that: a memory.
https://kreately.in/bhim-army-brutally-attacks-dalit-family-with-iron-rods-bricks-stones-breaks-dalit-youths-jaw-for-resisting-desecration-of-temple-worshipping-hindu-gods-in-kishanganj-bihar/
Disgusting. Fuck these communal anti-dalit and anti-hindu clowns. Money coming from freaking radical leftist Bhim Army.
https://www.pinkvilla.com/entertainment/south/familyman2againsttamils-trends-tamil-users-take-offence-alleged-facts-samantha-akkinenis-trailer-742973
The Family Man 2 lands into controversy; Tamils protest against the show
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmtRCNZihTk
Excellent video on the Iron Dome. Stay safe Israel. You are surrounded by radical islamists. Man Hezbollah has 150,000 rockets?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVpaCyO8f5o
“Crime and COVID are on the rise in the suburb of Southall in London that’s home to the largest Punjabi community outside of India. “
https://theprint.in/national-interest/can-2024-become-more-challenging-for-modi-yes-but-its-all-up-to-congress/662996/
“It isn’t my case that the Congress or the Gandhi family don’t understand this. They might take the Modi-Shah BJP lightly only in the sense that they are contemptuous of them, and probably do not acknowledge why they keep winning by these humongous margins. The Congress has three key flaws in its thinking:
– That the rise of Narendra Modi is still a passing aberration. The voters will see the light soon enough. They missed out in 2019 because of Pulwama, but now there is the pandemic and economic decline.
– The most vulnerable aspect of the BJP — its Achilles’ Heel or, if we Indianise this by borrowing non-judgementally from the Ramayana, like Ravana’s navel — is the RSS and its ideology. An ideology is an amorphous entity. Personalities are for real. The Congress wastes its limited ammunition attacking RSS, cow-urine-dung trivia, Savarkar, Golwalkar. The BJP limits itself to the Nehru-Gandhi dynasty, and often says nice things about the other leaders of the Congress’ past and present.
– The future of the Congress is now hard-Left. That’s why it allies with the Left Front and draws a blank in Bengal while fighting it in Kerala. If only it had aligned with Mamata instead, on whatever terms, it might have had a clearer pitch against the Left in Kerala, a state it could have won. And may have won at least a few seats in West Bengal. Anything would be better than zero. But this Congress, especially the younger ones, is besotted with the Communists. For evidence, watch who runs their social media operations, and how.”
As the left becomes more radical, it will start to ally more and more with the most radical of islamists. The unholy alliance will manifest only deeper. India is in for a bad near future ride of communism and terrorism, as Modi’s popularity wanes with this pandemic, even given that no leader would have handled it particularly well. Hell the supposed “I love the poor” attitude of the UPA government charged that even the initial lockdowns were draconian and advocated for a lot more openess. If anything, under them this might have ended up getting even worse.
modi’s pollitical demise appears premature. the bhakts are solid like indira gandhi’s voters. they will not flinch. others will be persuded by the following:
1. pappu as an alternate will be disastrous.
2. no tax increase in the next budget, effective reductions in the last two budgets.
3. push on infra, including piped water etc. in addition massive house building can be started as trc did in telengana.
4. more direct cash transfers, especially in the last year.
5. ofcourse, ram mandir will be substantially completed, but will be kept in the back ground. not sure of kashmir, caa, nrc etc.
My main fear is increased radical islamic and leftist terrorism, as both groups more frustrated at the resolve of development- minded voters.
On another note, look at these radical types in London
https://twitter.com/PaulBrown_UK/status/1396163359121317891?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1396163359121317891%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=
https://youtu.be/_1Cy8OFDPc0
The central assertion of this video is that Israel doesn’t need the US anymore (at least not to the extent that a lot of anti-Israel people think). The US military aid mainly goes to defensive stuff like Iron Dome and without such things Israel would be a lot more brutal as there would be more civilian deaths on their side. He also says that the current situation will persist until there is a global confict, when the Palestinians would be genocided under its cover.
https://www.reddit.com/r/IndiaSpeaks/comments/nj0zy7/swatigshorrific_communal_violence_in_bihars/
So sad. Just awful
https://www.opindia.com/2021/05/pakistan-uk-free-palestine-protestor-baloch-hazara-viral-video/
Very true. This man pointing out the hypocrisy.
https://twitter.com/HikindDov/status/1395519834402795527?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1395519834402795527%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=
Filthy. They need to be arrested and tried for at least assault. This is pathetic. Jews are facing mistreatment again.
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1395548301512962050?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1395548301512962050%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=
Absolutely savage. This is also assault. Behaving like animals. Sad to see this in one of the greatest cities of the world.
https://twitter.com/DavidADaoud/status/1395518127325204484?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1395518127325204484%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=
So glad Israel bombed these tunnels and killed/flushed out these terrorist termites.
Modi’s net approval rating (red line at the top):
https://morningconsult.com/form/global-leader-approval/
Even during the depths of the pandemic, it is still overwhelmingly positive as of writing. Once India moves out of crisis, there’s no reason why he shouldn’t get back partially – if not fully – to where he was before. Modi has almost North Korea-tier adulation, except he doesn’t have to use the military or police to enforce his popularity. Anyone thinking Modi is toast is either a political operative or deluding themselves on wishful thinking.
To me, Modi’s third term is basically a shoe-in. The real question is what comes next, as he is getting older and older. He has been very successful at eliminating potential rivals. The only real charismatic potential replacement in the BJP I see is Yogi, but he isn’t as suave among elites as Modi (who got good at it early in Gujarat). Yogi would also elicit a hugely negative pushback from the US, which influences India’s anglophone elites very substantially, much more so than it influences China’s elites or even Vietnam’s. Does that matter? I don’t know.
if he wins the third term, he will govern for 2 years and then leave citing the 75 year bar.
https://twitter.com/IndiaSpeaksPR/status/1396087042119983105
Since Clubhouse is now on android , Congress had its first ‘official’ Congress session. Thread on what went there ☝️
?
Also, check this:
https://twitter.com/salman7khurshid/status/1395577166612492288
What an ass wipe.
Bangladesh beats India in per capita income
The neighbouring country claims average income at $2,227, higher than India’s $1,947 in FY21 and Pakistan’s $1,543.
Is secular nationalism more conducive to economic development than religious nationallism?
https://www.newindianexpress.com/business/2021/may/20/bangladesh-beats-india-in-per-capita-income-2304942.html
@Roy
Question naturally arises why West Bengal does poorly inside India despite many decades of hyper-secular rule? Also, Bangladesh has seen a recent revival in religious fervor (though still much less intense than in Pakistan). But yes, with those quibbles aside, I agree that secularism and cultural moderation are essential ingredients to development. The true outlier was probably the USA in the early and mid-1900s, where the population was truly pious yet rich. Nevertheless, religion was never allowed to influence the political system even during Reagan.
It’s not really clear that Bangladesh is doing better than India. Nominal GDP does not measure wealth in any meaningful way if the exchange rate is not determined by the market forces. Bangladesh imposes huge taxes on imported consumer goods to control the trade deficit, and this makes the economy look much bigger than what it is when measured in terms of nominal dollars. If you look at the PPP figures, per capita income of Bangladesh is still marginally below West Bengal and 20 percent below India.
“Is secular nationalism more conducive to economic development than religious nationallism?”
For the first 5 decades Pakistan beat India in per capita income
People are arguing between whose more successful.. 2200, 1900 or 1500 while the world is more like 8000-10000-15000.. and the developed world is 40,000 or 50,000.
This is like 3 retards stuck in a wheelchair arguing who is faster, while all our peers in Asia have left us far behind.
Who is this ‘our’ and ‘us’?
3 countries being discussed: Pakistan, Bangladesh, India
I agree somewhat. The current flavor (retard stuck in a wheelchair) of the town is now Bangladesh, which would have posted similar performance under a Khalida Zia regime. Maharastra has been India’s no1 economic state under a left wing Congress regime for long. Gujrat under Modi performed similar to how it used to during Congress regimes.
This whole idea of secular regimes being better is just hogwash.
Agree with Qureshi. We’re theorizing too much over minute differences.
The GDP/capita of Goa, the richest administrative zone in the subcontinent, is $7k which is less than the GDP/capita of the whole of China.
Goa was not part of British India. It makes sense to compare the economic performance of the three successor states of British India. They started with similar socioeconomic conditions. More insights can be gained by analyzing the economic failures of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh than comparing India with China or South Korea which is tendency among Indian economists.
How about two successor cousins of British India? East and West Bengal.
West Bengal started as the economic power house and has been ruled by 3 secular parties for the last 70 years. East started as an economic laggard under Islamist rule till 70s and then 80s to mid 2000s under either Islamist dictatorship or Islamist parties.
Would you like to compare the economic development of these two regions? I think not….
You are right on a global stage all the south Asian countries are considered shitholes.
But the poorest large states in India like Bihar have higher HDI than Pakistani portion of the Punjab (which is the highest HDI large region in Pakistan).
Meanwhile Sri Lanka has higher HDI than almost all Indian states.
I consider Sri Lanka to be quite undeveloped as well.
But there are levels of shitholeness.
(Source for sun national HDI numbers https://globaldatalab.org/shdi/shdi/)
Using per capita income to judge disparate countries (size, political systems, multi-ethnic) is totally the rookie way to go.
Bangladesh can do diddly squat other than produce banians and pantyhose. If Mr. Roy thinks that is the mark of greatness, then let him be. Also other people like Qureishi – stop acting like everyone is in the same bucket – I know it helps to cope.
I have posted it before – the real way is to look at economic complexity ECI.
India – ranked 42 (ECI 0.54)
Bangladesh – ranked 108 (ECI -0.88)
Pakistan – ranked 99 (ECI -0.68)
Sri Lanka – ranked 78 (ECI -0.36)
Iran – ranked 101 (ECI -0.71)
Bhutan, Nepal, Afghanistan, Burma – not even ranked.
You can see the difference in every facet of life – countries with supposedly higher HDI/per capita income – cannot produce a Corona vaccine, create a GPS satellite constellation or produce autopilot software.
//countries with supposedly higher HDI/per capita income – cannot produce a Corona vaccine//
…and yet we have countries that can produce corona vaccine and still have people dying on the streets everywhere in such huge numbers than they cannot even be cremated.
so ”stop acting like everyone is in the same bucket – I know it helps to cope”
You have a humanitarian distaster on hand, the worst in the world by far.. and you are claiming some sort of upper ground on that
Don’t teach ideological people, they will come up with “rhetoric and feelings”. I have tried that and all I got in response is ” you have no soul”. I am the Dark Lord now! Be that as it may, adding to your point, Bangladesh will go stagnant in few years when the market goes saturated and production stagnates, Bangladesh has no hedges in place and investment options like engineering goods etc which will make their income stagnated and no job prospects to improve income in future will produce social tensions and obviously communal rifts among the people which will result in another border crisis for India. Indians being stupid don’t do enough reading and Pakis don’t understand anything that is written from left to right comment and virtue signal on it.
@ S Qureishi
So your entire argument about economic comparison suddenly shifted to pandemic handling? 🙂 Well, I have news for you…..Somalia has a lower Corona fatality rate than India, so Somalia has the better economy, right? Qureishi, step up and claim your Economics Nobel!
When @S Qureshi compares India with other SA countries, he does not take size into account. There are 2 Indias: One in gangetic plains — with per capita of $700 -800 — where 40-50% of India lives and remaining living in other parts whose per capita is around $4000-5000 and many times larger in size than Gangetic plains. The average becomes $2000.
Not all of South Asia is as shitty as Pakistan and Bangaldesh you know to the dismay of muppets.
If you consider half your country even shittier than the neighboring ‘enemy’ countries ”because GDP”, that’s just a sad state of affairs. LOL Who knew increasing female participation rate in formal economy increases the size of formal economy (a.k.a. GDP)? Your $4000 is pretty “shitty” too and nothing to brag about when rest of the world is way ahead.
https://www.opindia.com/2021/05/rajiv-gandhis-vanity-project-pmo-was-renovated-and-beautified-months-after-the-bhopal-gas-tragedy/amp/
Rajiv Gandhi’s vanity project: How the PMO was renovated and beautified months after the Bhopal Gas tragedy
India’s production of Sputnik is finally taking off:
https://indianexpress.com/article/india/sputnik-russia-covid-vaccine-7328136/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbctv18.com/views/securing-a-sustainable-future-for-indias-battery-manufacturing-ambitions-9412081.htm/amp
Securing a sustainable future for India’s battery manufacturing ambitions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWUheW0EASg&t=1687s
Finally the relucant Omar bhai.
Just have to say Omar bhai’s voice makes him sound younger than he is 😛
Is it just me or do you guys also see that (rich) Indians seem to have skipped Sedans and are moving from Hatchbacks to Crossovers. So many puny ‘SUVs’ on Indian highways, where are the City, Corollas and Accords? I can think of:
1) Bad roads so high ground clearance.
2) Usual big SUV arms race for crash safety.
Because the entry level Maruti cars are so tiny, the miniature SUVs of India are actually the actual viable entry level cars. But still why not sedans? They handle better, are ‘cars’, save fuel. Or maybe the answer is that Indian crossovers are actually just fancy hatchbacks that rank below proper sedans. idk but too many Harriers, Cretas and S-cross on roads these days.
Also, Mahindra’s automototive designs suck.
@bhimrao,
unfortunately our capitalists are also of the nakli or crony variety as are our socialists. our tatas/mahindras are at best good for repackaging foreign tech with “desi” stamp. Compare that koreans/japanese companies which used market protection and subsidies to capture eu and na markets.
I liked Tata Nexon and Harrier. Looked like well built cars, nothing like the Safari and Indigo of old.
What do you think about the Indian EV scene? Any chance for having our own Rivian, Xpeng, or Canoo? or will we have to make peace with secondshaadi.com founder/wannabe gurus (just joking I respect Warikoo) while the rest get their Zuckerberg and Jack Ma?
####
Random musings:
1) So a residential land holding of my family has been disputed by a land-grab mafia run by the son of our local BJP Member of Parliament. My family was a ‘soft’ target with the sons and sons-in-law not living locally and minimal (immediate) muscle power. They have faked land records and on enquiring with the lekhpal (who is involved with the mafia) we were told that despite tall claims about geo-tagging and digitization of land records the Indian government happily makes two registries for the same plot of land. Now, in the best case scenario if the MP sees we are no pushovers we will have to pay the mafia somewhere around 5 Lakh INR as compensation for his ‘troubles’ and he will withdraw, in worst case there will be a court case that runs for 30 years, where the judges, lekhpal and all kinds of government ‘servants’ will have to tipped. In the worst of worst and highly unlikely scenario there could be bloodshed. Preliminary negotiations show that we will have to pay the BJP ahem ‘social workers’. This is why there will always be caste politics and we will always vote SP.
2) Something I have also been thinking about are the endless grocery stores in India. What a waste of time and effort ! Just like the one and a quarter of an acre farms.
3) Someone explained to me that Gujjus and Marathi export-import company people from 1980’s-1990’s onwards had figured out what amateurs like me still don’t see – that making stuff, managing industry is a big hassle especially in a place like India where everyone- the bank, politician, labor union, bureaucrat, police… is after your pocket, where utilities, land and infrastructure are non existent and the workforce is neither trained nor talented or motivated. Building stuff is somehow looked down in UP+Bihar… We can retrofit explanations like legacy of foreign rule turning us into clerks in India aspiring at best to be code-monkey or doctors in the US.
Reminds me of the old quote that “Indians don’t cast their vote but vote their caste”. I hope your family’s troubles get sorted out. Obviously even paying a bribe is outrageous for what is clearly a shakedown and blackmail attempt.
That is life in India. How do you think are the election rallies funded by 2-5 solid candidates in each constituency? There are no industries or big farms here, trade is in commodities, and salaried people don’t do politics. Everyone knows and accepts that the money comes from contractors and mafias.
To me Country>>>…>>>caste, therefore I keep harping against caste based reservation.
But in my heart I know being the losers we are, without elections(democracy) and reservations(casteism) Republic of India will cease to exist.
Similar ” Social Workers” are also doing excellent community service in our ancestral village. And caste politics is not a bad thing till it asks for violence! We all know there is a religious group pan India which votes in “bloc” with 90+ % voting on the day for a “particular” party. The only problem I have with caste politics is that division of votes happen and the “bloc”becomes the winner.
@bhimrao,
Dont know the specifics of those 2 tata models. But too little and too late in my view and most likely rub-off from the JLR acquisition. Every time I read “salt to software” conglomerate I roll over my eyes. In my view, India has adequate surplus and problem lies with elites. They just want to be local franchisee holders of some or the other super power. Not to say that masses are without blame.
I hope/think/wish that Indians like us realize that escape is no more an option with wokeness being used to drive away asians+indians from west. Hope things work out for your family re the land issue.
“I hope/think/wish that Indians like us realize that escape is no more an option with wokeness being used to drive away asians+indians from west.”
I think there is a even bigger wave of Indian emigrants coming, much larger than the one US has seen since early 2000s, I do not see this trend reversing. India doesn’t offer the same quality of life or company of gora people.
“Hope things work out for your family re the land issue.”
Like I said we are no pushovers.
1. is trump already looking better for americans?
2. can china be nailed for covid?
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/modi-is-worsening-the-suffering-from-indias-pandemic/
So biased. Just wow…Saurav would like this
Arvind Panagariya has a lot of interesting things to say about Indian cars in his latest book. He contrasts India’s relative success in the auto parts sector with its dismal failure to create any global brands. In his view, it ultimately comes down to huge tariff barriers which impedes competition and essentially ensures a captive market for Indian carmakers which allows them to barely innovate and still get decent sales numbers.
By contrast, there are much lower tariffs on auto parts imports, which has forced the Indian ecosystem to be much more competitive and also gained a significant export share for some of these companies. Panagariya is a dyed-in-the-wool neoliberal, so his tonic would be wholesale liberalisation. But the South Korean experience showed that protective barriers can work to nourish “infant industries”. The problem for India is that these are no longer infants but overgrown adults in diapers. Another distinction is that the Koreans were very adamant about tying import barriers to export performance. If a firm wasn’t exporting, it ceased to get support. That is obviously not the case in India, where there is a cosy relationship between the car makers and the government of the day to continue to the status quo.
Your assessment of Panagriya’s view reflects my assessment. I would add one point. When the taxation of particular good is alter to provide it benefit relative to “global” competition, the government forgets that the same altered tax produces unstable taxation which encourages production and consumption of that particular good which in medium term degrades the economy and leads to further job losses. So far as I can tell, no “Indian” economist of fame has written a good book on Indian taxation and it’s problems comprehensively. Some have produced good work but they are incompatible when taken at fiscal policy level. GST is a monumental failure as implemented by this government which is supposed to improve tax collections. For ex:- the automobile entire supply chain when assessed proves beneficial ONLY to the assembly company but manufacturers of components are going bonkers because stupid 4 slab has put them in positive input tax credit nowhere to be utilised. Most of these components manufacturers are SMEs. Since these industries have very low margins they have increased rate to compensate the tax credit which ultimately led to increase in auto components imports. AtmaNirbhar bharat my ass!
To break free from Beijing’s chokehold on solar manufacturing, India should act like China
https://amp.scroll.in/article/995583/to-break-free-from-beijings-chokehold-on-solar-manufacturing-india-should-act-like-china
https://twitter.com/JoeXu/status/1396910262494457856
“John Cena apologized in Chinese on Sina Weibo after calling Taiwan a country during an interview promoting Fast & Furious 9”
Senior pundit ji had this to say:
https://twitter.com/razibkhan/status/1397099887666372612
Exactly zero people come to the US due to it’s moral ascendancy.
Money makes pundits all the time.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-24/pakistan-nears-debt-for-nature-swap-agreement-with-creditors
Interesting
Pakistanis are talented and creative at extracting money, in a petty, dodgy sort of way. Let us wait and see what becomes of China or what China makes of Pakistan.
I am sure some PhD in made-up-economics would be behind this BS at WB/IMF, but still free money is free money.
https://mobile.twitter.com/RobertGReeve/status/1397033902867369996
Found this interesting so sharing it
@thewarlock, @IsThisReal
Since the discussion thread on “Steppe vs. AASI dick measuring” (see the comments following Razib’s archived “Lakshmi” post, May 16, 2021) ended with the nice compliment “Francesco is a moron”, let me use this Open Thread to show you how my contentions in that discussion are even supported by a five centuries-old, Kāmasūtra-based Indian text and a medical report dating from the close of the nineteenth century.
From the Anaṅga Raṅga, an Indian sex manual written by Kalyāna Malla in the 15th or 16th century, translated by Sir Richard F. Burton (1885) at https://www.sacred-texts.com/sex/ar/ar05.htm :
1) śaśa, or the hare-man, “is known by a liṅga which in erection does not exceed 6 [aṅgulas], or about 3 inches;”
2) vṛṣabha, or the bull-man, “is known by a liṅga of 9 [aṅgulas] in length, or 4.5 inches;”
3) aśva, or the horse-man, “is known by a liṅga of 12 [aṅgulas], or about 6 inches long.”
An aṅgula (see at https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/angula ) is an ancient Indian unit of measurement defined as being “equal to a finger’s breadth.” Although its conversion to inches is somewhat problematic, two of the most often cited conversions proposed by scholars are the following:
Stuart Piggott: 1 aṅgula = 0.5 inches (coinciding with the measurement proposed by Burton, see above)
Axel Michaels: 1 aṅgula = 0.63 inches
Thus, the “horse-man” penile length (the top one known in India according to the Anaṅga Raṅga) is remarkable only if one takes Michaels’ measurement of the aṅgula as the basis; it is NOT AT ALL remarkable (in worldwide standards) if one takes Piggott’s and Burton’s measurements as the basis.
Moreover, I found the following medical observations in an old anthropological/sexological book written by a surgeon who was undoubtedly a thorough racist, but whose penis measurements on Indian patients, which he compares with those described in the Anaṅga Raṅga (see above), I have no reason to doubt (N:B: He also “measured” Arabs, Blacks, etc. with very different results). Here it is:
“Dr. Jacobus X” (pseudonym of a retired French army surgeon), Untrodden Fields of Anthropology (Paris 1898) at https://archive.org/details/b20417238/page/282/mode/2up :
“The average size [of the penis of Hindu men in Guyana] appeared to me to be about 5 inches long […]. Many are from 3.5 to 4 inches […]. Few are from 5.5 to 6 inches, which is nearly the European average, and which here appears to be the maximum. […] The result of my personal observations is, that the great bulk of the Hindoo coolies may be classed as ‘men-hares’, only a small number are ‘men-bulls’, and a smaller number still ‘men-stallions’.”
Again, the maximum penile length of the Indians as recorded by “Dr. Jacobus X” coincides with that inferred for the Anaṅga Raṅga’s “horse-man” by Burton (see above).
Show me a quality peer reviewed study from the modern literature. Citing old racist anthropology texts is dumb. Don’t waste my time.
I cited the highest standard of data. You have no good response. You cited trash much like yourself. Good job. Your confirmation bias shows over and over. I am done addressing you and your penile obsession. You are grasping on straws, as expected.
warlock
The nature study you quoted is not drawn from the general population, it is drawn from participants who were actively sought sexual dysfunction treatment.. so that’s a big qualifier.. besides, average of 13 cm is nothing to brag about, it’s 5 inches erect. Since Kerala is one of the tallest states in India and penile length positively correlates with height, you can plausibly assume most other states don’t even hit the 5 inch mark when it comes to ‘dick measuring’.
I’m all for equality of human race and what not but refusing to accept biological diversity in different groups of people is just some leftist bullshit.
@Q
“The nature study you quoted is not drawn from the general population, it is drawn from participants who were actively sought sexual dysfunction treatment.. so that’s a big qualifier.. ”
I am not really sure what your argument is here. If anything, the erections might be weaker and this could be underestimate.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19453888/#:~:text=There%20were%20significant%20positive%20correlations,(11.2%20%2B%2F%2D%201.5%20cm).
“The average of fully stretched penile length in normal potent men is 12.9 cm, whereas the patients with ED tend to have significantly shorter penises (11.2 +/- 1.5 cm).”
Here is what the data show ^. Impotent men had lower on average fully stretched penis length. And fully stretched penis length is correlated w/ erect length. So selecting this population actually might be low balling things.
“besides, average of 13 cm is nothing to brag about, it’s 5 inches erect.”
Indian penis size is slightly more, though not significantly so in the US study cited and significantly more than the Jordanian study mean. The Israeli average was only .5 cm more but significant. What exactly is your conclusion here? The US is a developed nation, yet averages range from 5.1-5.4in in most studies, with most around a 5.25inches. This one had these keralite men at a mean of 5.15 inches, so even if you compare to a broader number, this is well within regular range. Also, most US literature is heavily biased towards white male overrepresentation in the study.
No one is arguing Indians have huge penises. That was never the contention. The contention is that there is a lot of biased nonsense that circulates around.
The contention specifically by Franciso was that I am displaying some sort of “penis envy” about the fact that steppe men had bigger dicks supposedly. He provides 0 evidence for this. He has no hard evidence that AASI makes penises smaller. You have to have actual data. Also IVC people ranged 0-50% AASI and were 50% mesolithic iran HG related. That latter aspect is actually a greater portion of Indian ancestry in most than even AASI is. Regardless, absolutely none of this is taken into account. He than makes conflation of steppe ancestry back than with modern day Eastern Euro one. He provides no strong evidence in either direction.
“Since Kerala is one of the tallest states in India and penile length positively correlates with height, you can plausibly assume most other states don’t even hit the 5 inch mark when it comes to ‘dick measuring’.”
Here is the contention again that is quite flawed. First of all, penis length and height correlation intrapopulation has not been proven. Within the same population, there is a correlation but it is weak. Look up the nature study in turkish populations. They legit say “weak” correlation in the abstract.
And Kerela is one of the tallest states because it is well fed. It is almost among the more AASI ones. Punjab is similar average height and one of the more steppe ones. Nutrition is correlated with height. These places don’t even have optimal nutrition compared to the West. So even if we bought into your height penis length correlation paradigm as perfectly applicable, if anything, penis sizes are underestimated in S Asia. Do we have data that the non -steppe people had worse nutrition than the steppe ones?
Finally, Franciso’s contention is that AASI women were pleasured by larger Steppe penises. Do we know the nutritional status of both groups. Do we know which ones have larger penises? Actually looking at the data we have, we can’t conclude that. The data actually show an AASI heavy population, something you can really stretch as a very loose proxy for the “natives.” and a Euro heavy proxy like most American samples, something you use as an ultra loose proxy for “steppe,” are doing quite similarly, despite worse nutrition in the prior. In the end, the conclusion drawn does not support Franciso’s wacky hypothesis, even with the quite limited data we have.
I know he bragged earlier about looking up Eastern Euro and Andamese dick pics and then went to old racist anthro journals, but despite all of his weird racial fetishes and fascination with looking at penises, the data just don’t support his point.
“I’m all for equality of human race and what not but refusing to accept biological diversity in different groups of people is just some leftist bullshit.”
I accept biological diversity. When there are facts stating that blacks have more ACTN homozygosity and that is linked positively with sprinting performance because of fast twitch fiber performance downstream effect, I accept it because there is hard data on it. Just like there is hard data on Dutch men or men from the dinaric alps being the tallest.
When there is no data about something and it is all just nonsensical suppositions based on various confirmation biases of what the person wants reality to be rather than what any evidence shows, one cannot make the types of conclusions Franciso is making. It is clear that he starts with a premise and then goes about finding anything and everything that backs up, regardless of bias, methodology, quality, or applicability of the source.
Do not straw man. I do not doubt biological diversity for physical traits between groups. But there has to be clear evidence for it. If anything, the only good data we have points against the assumptions that Franciso has. There is no “leftist BS” present here. If anything, your logical fallacy is the closest to it.
Some more data
https://bjui-journals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/bju.13010
This is a British Study over 15,000 men. Average size was 13.12 cm erect, quite similar to Kerela study. Britain is over 90% white and developed. Again, this contradicts even the racist anthro text you posted and its wild claims. Real data does not back up what you think.
Even if we were to look into your trash cited source,
The guy looked at mens genital length and guessed. He straight up admits it. He had no sample size. No methodology. Nothing. He just says this stuff off of observation. How many did he see? How did he measure them? All of this is unanswered. He also makes some weird claims like Indian men are very hard with their erections but black men have weaker ones. Did you see that part on the next page? The guy is making all sorts of nonsensical claims.
Also, you didn’t get that penis length stuff from an independent source for the ancient indian text. The measurements are given in finger dimensions not inches. And the racist author you cited extrapolates based on finger dimensions he doesn’t even measure but estimates and only extrapolates.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32666897/
^Even a study on misconceptions of penis size average in the West. Looks like they have the same misconceptions of an average of 5.5-6inches in the West, with most studies showing averages in 5.1-5.5 inch range. The same nonsense you pushed. Data doesn’t show that. All the conclusions keep showing over and over again is that you are full of nonsense.
You don’t know how to read modern scientific literature. You stick to what every quality dribble supports your confirmation biases you are a clown of the highest order.
“belief is due, in part, to several often-cited studies that relied on self-reported measurements, with means of about 6.2 inches (15.75 cm) for heterosexual men and even greater for gay men. These studies suffered from both volunteer bias and social desirability bias. In this review, the combined mean for 10 studies in which researchers took measurements of erect penises was 5.36 inches (13.61 cm; n = 1,629). For 21 studies in which researchers measured stretched penises, the mean was approximately 5.11 inches (12.98 cm; n = 13,719).”
I use real data to back up my conclusions. No racialist 18th century hate novels.
LOL warlock,
You are being completely dishonest here when you quote that British study about 15000 participants..
The stretched length has n = 14 160, with a mean of 13.24 cm. (even greater than the erect length). The erect length has only n=691
And if you compare the stretched length with the Kerala study – that one showed 10.88cm for India.
The stretched length is actually a better indication of maximum penis size because not all erections are full erections.
You copy pasting whatever study you find on google and cherry picking data that confirms your POV does not help. There is a serious lack of data on ”erect penis size” because its hard to measure and there are simply not enough studies to provide data because this could race controversies.
The whole discussion is stupid, but obviously you give in to the race baiting because you feel this is some point of insecurity. Why do such race remarks not work the other way round and don’t have the desired effect? You know the answer.
We discussed mean erect length data. The methodology for that is reported throughout. It is clear that by that data the kerela data is not statistically significantly different from the mean length in the UK and US studies cited. I cited multiple data sets. You cannot refute that. There is plenty of literature on mean erect length. I just cited a fraction of it.
“Stretched penis data is more accurate.” You have 0 basis for the statement that is true about anything. There is correlation between stretched length and erectile length in some groups. That is all. And if you actually sat at read the methodology of most of these studies, they throughout the data points for the men who could not obtain proper erections. So your whole “not full erection” point is a non sequitur. You are the one who is cherry picking.
Just because you cannot fathom the thought of a group having similar mean erect penis length as another because you want to validate points in another direction, does not mean it makes your reality true.
I give evidence from modern studies for my perspective. Peer reviewed ones with methodology clearly stated.
I am refuting the nonsensical claims that I see all over the place. That is all I am doing. I am not baited by anything other than setting the record straight and showing what conclusions actually have evidence. All of the nonsensical race stuff, including the racial looks hierarchies you pedal, fall into the same camp.
If you want to believe that Indians have small dicks, in terms of mean erect length, compared to other groups, despite the actual published data showing the contrary, go right ahead. That’s on you.
There is no way an angula is half an inch. 2/3-3/4th of an inch (or 17-19 mm) is consistent across ancient cultures for digit measurements (and my own finger width is ~0.75 inches).
You could argue that Indians had much smaller fingers than literally every other civilization, but we also know that forearm length hasti was 24 angula (same as pretty much every other civilization), so a value of 0.5 inches for the angula would have required Indians to be dwarves (and magically grown by the time the British and Dutch came along and could observe that the hasti was normal sized at 42-47 cm across India and Indonesia: https://archive.org/details/bub_gb_zkErAAAAYAAJ/page/n25/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/bub_gb_zkErAAAAYAAJ/page/n27/mode/2up).
Since Twitter’s local HQ was raided a few days ago in India, Koo is now raising $30 million.
https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/koo-app-fundraise-tiger-global-twitter-social-media-it-rules-7330989/
Indian nationalists feel that Twitter is putting its thumbs on the scale to favour the liberal forces. I don’t think they are wrong. But Modi thus far has shown little spine in taking on the US hegemonic outposts, of which Twitter is one. Most of what he’s done is theatrics, at least so far.
It wasn’t even a raid. And the biggest beneficiary of twitter is “the bearded man” himself. He will not do anything to Twitter. As you pointed out, it’s all theatrics. “The bearded man” cares more about the white man’s validation than the leftists in India. Nationalists are furious at ” the Grand old man” for being full on Jaina muni when Bengal happened, Delhi riots happened and now corona 2nd wave.
On dead bodies in Ganga,
1) It is nothing new, obviously a lot of people are dying but the water burial happen all the time, it is not due to poverty.
2) Many Hindus do not cremate their dead. There is a prominent Thakur family that I know who do not cremate their dead but do some nominal ritual with a burning cow dung cake and then dispose(?) off the body in Ganga.
3) The most common variation is that the dead bodies of children are always buried instead of cremated, in the case of the bodies in shallow sand graves along Ganga in Prayagraj there is a regional practice there that involves burying in case of untimely death, also in case of death due to leprosy there is burial not cremation irrespective of caste or standing.
4) The only variation I have personally seen is burning with cow dung cakes instead of wood. It takes forever (approximately 6+ hours compared to 2-3 hours with dry Mango wood) to do it and is popular around Jhansi. The reasoning given for the origin of this tradition is the lack of good wood as the region mostly has Babool trees and people believe that cremating with Babool condemns the soul to become a prait(ghost?).
@S Qureishi, @thewarlock
Thank you, Qureishi, for understanding what I am pointing out – kind of a “Sad Truth” if you want to call it so.
I see nobody has picked up on my quote from the Anaṅga Raṅga, which is, after all, an important indigenous treatise about love & sex in the marriage relation elaborating on the Kāmasūtra attributed to Vātsyāyana (composed one thousand years before it), and cannot certainly be accused of “racist Western bias” – as if the racist French surgeon styling himself as “Jacobus X”, who measured the penile size of many Indians, Arabs, Black Africans, etc. in the late-nineteenth century, were to be accused of delighting, for unknown reasons, in deliberately lying to his Western readers about the smaller size of the average Indian erect penis compared to that of the average European, Arab, and Black African erect penises respectively. Does thewarlock interpret this as “racist anti-Indian bias”? Why did “Jacobus X” not show the same bias toward the Arabs and Black Africans, whom he despises and insults in his book far more than the Indians? I think that even a racist colonial doctor could measure penises scientifically without any bias. But evidently someone here interprets this “Sad Truth” as “Hindu-baiting”, à la Sangh Parivar! Has nowadays dick size become a matter of “national pride” versus “national shame” in Bhārata, and is any attempt to point out this obvious kind of genetic diversity between Indians and Europeans doomed to be declared a threat to national self-esteem? (N.B. Mind that there are some “Pakistani enemies” – or perhaps Indian Muslims, I don’t know – who are currently mocking Hindus on the Internet because of the latter’s “chota Arya-linga”, or perceived one! See, e.g., at https://www.urbandictionary.com/author.php?author=Moollah_Do_Pyaza .)
You are right, Qureishi: average of 13 cm as recorded in the 2007 Kerala medical study idolized by thewarlock is nothing to brag about! That’s why I have tried to understand, out of scientific and personal curiosity, what the Kāmasūtra’s classical distinction between “hare-dick”, “bull-dick”, and “horse-dick” really means in comparative terms. The Kāmasūtra does unfortunately not provide any dick measurements, but the much later Anaṅga Raṅga by Kalyāna Malla does and, as I have mentioned in my earlier comment in this Open Thread, it states that the topmost Indian liṅga (the “horse-dick”) measures 12 aṅgulas, or about 6 inches according to its translator Sir Richard Burton. In worldwide standards, that’s really not much to brag about as if it were a “giant dick”, believe me… It would do better if an aṅgula corresponded to 1.6 cm as proposed by other scolars… But that question has not been settled… yet.
Show actual scientific literature. There are no methodologies or sample sizes. There is no peer review. Am I supposed to just trust the word of some racist dude from the 18th century who is ranting about what he perceives to be dick size differences based on his inspection of random people? Just listen to yourself dude.
You are the one fishing for random shit from even the most pathetic of sources to back up your view point. Seriously man, man I am still questioning your fascination with old racist texts, indian sex manuals, and searching for a posting andamese dick pics. You have a real penchant for the latter.
no more dick talk. these comments are weird.
i’ll start banning people.
Honestly, all I am doing is addressing the weird lies that Francisco comes up with and the odd bandwagoning Qureshi does about any intraracial discussions, probably stemming from his annoyance that I thoroughly steamrolled him in his weird “objective racial looks” hierarchy discussion, but again that’s just a theory.
I’m not the one posting racist anthropology texts and making weird extrapolations from ancient Indian sex manuals. And I sure as hell am not the one bragging about going through eastern euro and andamaese dick pics and then posting 5 of the latter.
@Razib
O.k.
https://fiftytwo.in/story/borders/
Even NW Haleems slowly realizing their heritage