“Razib Khan’s two part essay on Indian history is brilliant. While it’s long for a blog post, you’ll learn more about India than you would in many full length books.”
-Scott Sumner
From The Money Illusion. I think this is obviously hyperbolic, but I’m actually rather proud of these two pieces of writing, which come in about 10,000 words. The two essays:
– Stark Truth About Aryans: a story of India
– Stark Truth About Humans: a story of India
Also, for an “Indian face,” Ramesh Ponnuru on the pro-life movement in America.
I understand my Substack is spendy for Indians. I’m thinking of doing a “special offer” for Indian readers. And yet, as it is, I would estimate that 25% of the people who subscribed have South Asian names! (I will tell you I have more than 500 subscribers as of now)
What’s going on with the protests and the farm stuff? Too much stuff in the US for me to track India. Any articles you recommend?
Reading An Environmental History of India. I would recommend it, it’s pretty decent as an introduction to someone who has no background in this field or topic.
@Razib
Basically, it turned into a Jat-Sikh rentier class riot masquerading as a “farmer protest” into a Pan Jat Caste agitation masquerading, rather poorly I might add, as a “farmer protest.” A lot of it stems from loss of Jat political power to the BJP political machine behemoth. That is the angle for Hindu Jats, along with losing their rent seeking privileges that rely almost exclusively on government hand-outs. The Sikh angle is mostly the latter but a lot of money comes from NRI Khalistanis so that ends up being used in play as well.
This was after the Jat-Sikh element reached its Zenith, when Khalistani terrorists placed a Sikh Flag atop the Red Fort. A Khalistani flag was also present but at lower mast. This was highly symbolic because the fort is seen as a Pan-Indian symbol. To put a religious flag is highly disrespectful, especially on Republic Day itself. Several hundred police officers were injured. Some people from radical Sikh sects wielded swords and assaulted officers. One NRI Australian Sikh Khalistani goon tried to jump a barricade with a tractor and run over officers and ended up dying in the process (Darwinian ironic justice at play).
The next day, the protests started to clear. The UP government got over confident and tried to move the farmers out of the area directly across the Yamuna. The Hindu Jat leader there cried on national TV. This inspired Hindu Jats from Haryana and UP to get more involved.
They did this same shit before. Delhi is highly susceptible because it is in the middle of “Jat land,” with Western UP, Punjab, and Haryana surrounding it. These types of agitations have gained them benefits in the past including caste based reservations for Jats in Haryana, something the courts struck down, and also free electricity for farmers in those regions, something that was won via a riot during the tenure of a weak Rajiv Government and a benefit that has remained till this day.
https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/politics/a35321103/separating-indian-hindu-identities/
“Why I Separated My Indian Identity from My Hindu Identity”
Less-Hindu ethnicity.
I wonder what came first. Leftism or “less hindu.” It seems to me it is possible the prior came first.
I would say “Less-Hindu”.
Less/Non Hindu political space gives rise to Communism, Dravidian-ism, Regionalism, Separatism, Woke-ism. The less-Hindu the space , more the rise of these other politics. And vice-versa.
Nobody should be surprised that she’s an Indian-American. They are almost uniformly turbo-woke. It’s no surprise many become rabid SJWs. This is why naïve calls from some Indian quarters about getting Indian-Americans to act like Jewish-Americans do for Israel is naïve. Jews have a much higher amount of sheer tribalism. Indian-Americans are only about half Hindu and a large fraction of these Hindus are like this woman.
They are highly socio-economically successful but way too woke and splintered to act as a coherent group. It’s sad. HAF is doing good work but they are demographically doomed given these social trends.
“This is why naïve calls from some Indian quarters about getting Indian-Americans to act like Jewish-Americans do for Israel is naïve.”
On the contrary, i hope that Indian American community doesn’t morph into Iranian-Americans, demanding sanctions on India and stuff.
Ironical coming from a Jat.
“What’s going on with the protests and the farm stuff?”
“Abhinav Prakash on Farmer Protests” Dec 6, 2020 Mukunda and Razib pick Abhinav Prakash on the farmer protests in Punjab. What’s going on? Class? Caste? Neoliberalism?”
https://brownpundits.libsyn.com/abhinav-prakash-on-farmer-protests
Or is it late breaking news you want?
BTW. I listened to that Browncast. The agricultural polices he described strongly resemble the first iteration of the US New Deal.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ndtv.com/india-news/social-activist-anna-hazare-cancels-fast-over-farm-reforms-2360155%3famp=1&akamai-rum=off
Social Activist Anna Hazare Cancels Fast Over Farm Reforms
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livemint.com/v/s/www.livemint.com/market/cryptocurrency/government-lists-bill-to-ban-bitcoin-in-india-create-official-digital-currency/amp-11611943365545.html%3famp_js_v=0.1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%253D%253D#ampf=
Government lists bill to ban Bitcoin in India, create official digital currency
https://www.instagram.com/p/CKor9ZTs1He/?igshid=ybyae2zd0w0u
Time to split the Sikh regiment like Indira Gandhi did. Man, I miss her. True Iron Lady. She made bad socialist errors and curbed civil liberties too much at points. But her policies dealing with domestic insurrection and foreign policy were on point.
Sikhs are a very pampered minority in India. Partly because they depend on MSP gibs to a greater extent than other communities, partly because they are given preference in the armed forces. You’d think the ‘martial races’ nonsense would be buried but it seems to be alive and well in India despite official denails.
Finally, Sikhs have a very large share of their population as NRIs, which allows them to sustain these kinds of agitations due to foreign remittance flows from Kanneda and other places.
Also hindu nationalists suck upto them.
I miss her, too. She would have put them in their place.
I am reading Arvind Panagariya’s New India book which came out in 2020. Despite the boring title and even more boring descriptions, it’s actually a very lucid book. I’ve read a lot of books on the Indian economy (my favourite still being Vijay Joshi’s magisterial book from 2016).
Panagariya has a rare gift for writing, which is far from obvious among economists. I am a social-democrat, so it is intellectually challenging to read something from someone who is a staunch neoliberal. Yet the evidence he marshals from all over the world to make his case is compelling. One of its strengths is his comparative perspective and he doesn’t let India off the hook while simultaneouesly refusing to give in to pessimism and fatalism.
One of its biggest strengths is its focus on labour-intensive exports and how he uniformally slams India’s specialisation in higher-end economic activities, especially in IT services, pharma etc. India has for reasons unknown to me completely ignored its revealed comparative advantage and instead LARPed as a developing country.
There is a budget coming up in the coming days, and there will be a lot of vapid hot air surrounding it. In reality, the vast majority of government expenditure is fixed (salaries, interest costs, pensions etc) which means each budget has rather little effect. Read this book instead.
“India has for reasons unknown to me completely ignored its revealed comparative advantage”
The comparative advantage here mainly comes from pushing docile, lower class women into repetitive, boring jobs. This might bring in a few dollars for a while, but has devastating long term effects via lower fertility. A second child is necessary not only for a stable population, but is also important for sharing the sibling’s filial burden when parents get old.
Indian women, even from lower strata could possibly resist these lifeless jobs, especially if it is at the cost of having more children. The labor costs might not be as low as people are assuming.
Browncast with Samapriya Basu on linguistics possible?
https://www.quora.com/profile/S%C4%81mapri%E1%BA%8Fa-Basu
Judging by the people he follows on twitter and vice-versa, he likely lurks on this blog.
Get Slapstik in too for commentary if he has the time to spare, would make for a fun podcast.
I have followed 3-4 linguistic twitter people – Samapriya Basu, Aryaman Arora, Abhishek Avtans, Suresh Pant etc.
These guys post wonderful content. Tying together words-phrases-languages from Hindi to Bengali, Braj to Marathi – everything. Absolutely fascinating people and content.
Please host some of these guys. I don’t know what to talk to these people about – a general conversation would be good too.
https://twitter.com/penguinindia/status/1353722817758588928?s=21
Book launch of Mohammed zeeshan. He has been a guest on browncast. Perhaps time to call him again.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ndtv.com/india-news/punjab-cm-amarinder-singh-says-weapons-smuggling-by-pakistan-up-since-farm-protests-report-2360294%3famp=1&akamai-rum=off
Punjab Chief Minister Cautions About Pakistan Amid Farm Protests
He needs punjabi hindu votes.
https://indianexpress.com/article/india/in-punjab-assembly-segment-bjp-swept-in-2019-a-farm-stir-spearheaded-by-own-men-7167312/lite/
In Punjab Assembly segment BJP swept in 2019, a farm stir spearheaded by own men
https://twitter.com/jamescrabtree/status/1355401836795101185
White people wondering how Brown people are not falling like flies , which their sepoys told (and are still telling) them would happen.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/acquitting-daniel-pearls-killer-is-part-of-pakistans-dance-with-jihadism-11611875865
Halal haleem owaisi
The magic words for India were – Ivermectin, HCQ and a harsh lockdown. Most NYT journalists peddle agenda – Amy Kazmin is one of the worst. Glad to see so many Indians on twitter giving her a dressing down.
I wonder where did that ramaswamy guy vanished who predicted there will be gazillions death in India, back in April.
Its Ramanan Laxminarayan…lol. He is still giving advice on Twitter to whoever is willing to listen.
From time to time Indian journalism parades these floaters like they were dispensing great wisdom.
Ugra:
With all due respect, the lockdown did jackshit except delay the inevitable. Also it is incontrovertible that the disease got concentrated among the unemployed and homeless migrant workers who then became vectors for the spread after the lockdown to regions with zero caseload up to that point, like my home state, JH.
If India had the same fatality rate as the Netherlands, then 1 million Indians should have passed away. If we take Belgium (highest death per capita), then 2.2 million Indians should have passed away.
If they have not, then there must be a reason.
The reason could have been medical – superior Indian immunity or genetic predisposition to respiratory strength. But I do not see any doctors making these claims!
In the Netherlands, some of the facilities I have witnessed for social distancing and treatment are outstanding. Yet they lost a disproportionately higher number. I travelled during the Christmas break to India and did some activities (temple runs, weddings, hotels) that would be considered high-risk activity in the Netherlands. Yet I got back a negative RT-PCR – to my own surprise!
There is a very simple parsimonious explanation – we did a very good hardcore lockdown and we started using prophylactic drugs very early on! Here is another view….
https://trialsitenews.com/an-unlikely-nation-is-kicking-this-pandemic-guess-which-then-why/
A lockdown is not a lockdown unless it can whittle down the number of infected to a really small number. Clearly that didn’t happen or we wouldn’t have seen the number of cases rise to millions by the latter part of the year.
As I explicitly said in my other email, if you look at the evidence, it is clear the virus did spread throughout the country regardless of any countermeasures taken by the govt but it created a lot less strife than it seems to have in Western countries.
But hey, if you want to believe ideologically-driven explanations over lying eyes, be my guest.
Call me a COVID-denier all you want, but my personal observations in India suggest that the almighty freakout we have had over the past year to this disease is completely out of proportion to its impact on Indians (key words are “India” and “Indians”; I’m not disputing that this virus has caused a lot more distress in other countries).
Anecdotes: I know several people who were diagnosed with Covid and officially quarantined (a govt official visited them and put a sign across their doors). They all recovered without much ado. (I’m assuming they were not misdiagnosed.) Without exception, all of them lie in the “old” category. Before being diagnosed, they were mingling with people, none of whom seem to have contracted the disease. I know exactly one elderly person who died because of what would seem to be COVID symptoms (fluid filling up in the lungs).
Had the Western world not caught this disease and it had not had such a severe impact on both peoples’ health and psyche there, my guess is that this disease would barely have made the news in India. Not even at the level of the Nipah virus. Probably somewhere in the region of our annual affair with dengue.
I have no rational explanation for this. I read the twitter feeds and the articles about masks but I’m not convinced. I’ve been religiously wearing masks in the proper way since last March, but most people around here don’t. Some go maskless, many wear masks for show, i.e., on the chin but covering nothing, some (like my dad) are quite reluctant to cover their noses, complaining that they feel suffocated, etc.
Next time something like this happens, I hope our ruling class will not try to pretend that we are a G7-country and instead apply one of our few natural competitive advantages to the hilt: that we live in a filthy environment with so much disease around in normal times that a new virus is not likely to floor us in the same way it floors people in richer and cleaner countries.
You are in the timeline where active measures have been taken.
You are not in the timeline where nothing has been done.
You cannot postulate anything about the second timeline based on your observations of the first timeline. You are trapped in Newcomb’s paradox.
You are not making any sense. I presented observations and analysis (which may well be wrong). You should present counter-observations or counter-analysis instead of spouting Deepak Chopra-like nonsense.
Also, it gets tiresome when people living abroad keep educating those who actually live in India about what’s really going on in India and what’s really good for the country. You guys have the kinds of infrastructure and facilities we are unlikely to have in my lifetime. Those are the problems I’d like us in India to tackle in earnest. I understand NRIs have emotional needs, but please don’t try to meet them at our expense. You guys don’t have to face the consequences the way we do.
I agree with u Numinous, but do u really feel this?
“Had the Western world not caught this disease and it had not had such a severe impact on both peoples’ health and psyche there, my guess is that this disease would barely have made the news in India. Not even at the level of the Nipah virus.”
I disagree on that front. Neither Dengue or Nipah have caused the number , nor have the geographical extent of deaths caused by the Corona virus, in a year. So any virus which would have caused this would have been news in India, notwithstanding the west.
Saurav:
You are right in that if so many deaths were occurring due to a mysterious cause, then it would definitely have made the papers. But I have a slight suspicion that may of the deaths being counted as COVID have little or nothing to do with that disease. It’s just that people who die of other diseases in proximity to COVID patients may get bundled into the death stat. (My suspicion could be completely unwarranted, and if someone who has first-hand knowledge of how medical stats are collected in India can correct me, that’d be great.)
If my suspicion has any basis, in “normal” times, people wouldn’t see any mystery in these deaths, which would be attributed to other conditions the deceased possess, with a caught infection assumed to simply be a catalyst in some of those cases. Again, I emphasize I could be wrong, and the only reason I raise these suspicions is the plain fact that much fewer people in India have died than would be expected (comparing with the West) and these deaths seem quite random (even most people with pre-existing conditions who contract COVID are recovering fine).
The other reason why I’m airing these views is personal. As I mentioned above, our govt and collective health facilities, in the futile quest make us look like a developed country, basically reserved a whole lot of medical facilities for future COVID patients. In effect, waiting for a phantom disease for, in some cases, months. If you had other diseases, even life-threatening ones, too bad. My mom’s cancer happened to recur right around this time, and it was late-stage. She did get some care and treatment, but I believe it was sub-optimal, and she passed away. Perhaps we could have done better if there were minimal restrictions rather than draconian lockdowns and if we hadn’t tacitly assumed that it was OK to die of older diseases but not of COVID, or perhaps not, but there will always be a lingering regret.
So my interest is in ensuring that people don’t overreact to similar threats in the future (and I don’t deny at all that COVID was and remains a threat).
Numinous:
Are you views on COVID prevalence colored by where you live in India?
Most of my rels live in Western India/Mumbai and I have had two close relatives die of COVID (75 and 55 – the latter was in South India) and two other 60+ age relatives with moderate to severe COVID. For this group I personally saw their reports including CT scan that showed severe effects in the lung. This is to say that not only were they symptomatic, imaging showed moderate to severe lung damage, and in both of these cases they went from nothing to this level of damage in 4-5 days. They both survived but only after the full Remdesevir treatment (with many other drugs also given) and not without major side effects even months after recovering.
In my extended circle I know of another 7-10 people who died of COVID, and a few who survived after weeks of treatment (one of them was 45 and on ventilator). A close friend’s dad (mid 60s) passed away from COVID in December (went from nothing to death in 12 days). Which Nipah virus or dengue caused this sort of damage? That COVID was/is a real unprecedented threat is not in question in view. You could however question the government’s response to it and the jury on that is still out on whether such a severe lockdown was required especially taking cost-benefit into account.
@lurker:
Yes, clearly my personal experiences have shaped my views on this topic. I see (1) people being quite lax with both masks and social distancing, (2) relatively low spread of the disease among people I know or hear about, (3) low fatality rate among people I know who got the disease. This combination strikes me as implausible unless we are overestimating the seriousness of COVID.
But I may have a very skewed perspective, and I’m definitely not an epidemiologist. So thanks for offering a corrective. I’m sorry to hear about the deaths of those close to you because of this disease. And as you say, our interest should be in ensuring that a rational policy is crafted in response to similar threats in the future.
FYI, I live in Bangalore and have family in different parts of the country, MH, JH, WB, in particular.
@Numinous
Also, it gets tiresome when people living abroad keep educating those who actually live in India about what’s really going on in India and what’s really good for the country.
The ICMR is not made up of NRIs nor is the Covid Task force. Neither is Modi an NRI. You should really start looking up Shamika Ravi who is the best person on twitter on this topic.
Your arguments are like those of a Muslim cleric, “I didn’t take any polio vaccine when I was a kid. Look at me – I am perfectly alright”. This kind of argumentation cannot fathom that he is safe because the rest of the population took measures to prevent the spread. That is the payoff – he is enjoying – based on the hardships other went through.
The biggest risk from Covid is for families who have a single breadwinner – they lose that person and its game over for them – a real stop to all their aspirations. See below. Perfectly healthy 39 year old man passes away and suddenly the family has no future.
https://milaap.org/fundraisers/support-nadiya-2
And it has happened again and again. With the plague in Surat, encephalitis in UP and a host of perfectly preventable disease vectors. Listen to the public health administration – what they are saying.
Your contrarian view is just amateurish. And you did not post any stats despite what you are saying. Brazil is exactly like India – high population density, similar medical facilities, socio-economic distribution. And they have a higher caseload/fatality rate than India – despite having only 1/6th of India’s population.
Sorry for you loss Numinous.
Also Numinous, if i may , ur providing a counter narrative with “If my suspicion has any basis, in “normal” times, people wouldn’t see any mystery in these deaths, which would be attributed to other conditions the deceased possess, with a caught infection assumed to simply be a catalyst in some of those cases.”
Because right now the whole thing is India is actually under counting its COVID deaths, but u seems to suggest the opposite. Its interesting view point.
The “Kerala model” of combating Covid is turning out to be the most egregious example of marxist propaganda in recent history. From yesterday’s address by India’s CEA, the following stats stand out –
1. In terms of active cases per population, Kerala tops out today beating Maharashtra by a wide margin.
2. Kerala today accounts for 50% of all active Indian cases – for a small state this is a tall achievement.
3. Positivity (by testing) rate is steady and has not fallen since October
4. It also looks like the government is fudging mortality figures.
5. Testing per million population is among the lowest in India, so indeed the situation could be even worse.
https://swarajyamag.com/politics/a-long-painful-year-of-covid-how-kerala-government-turned-the-state-into-an-epidemic-basket-case
The situation is so bad and also transparently visible that the Chief Minister of the adjoining state Tamilnadu, EPS, made fun of the Kerala model at a election rally calling out that the “Kerala’s trousers are torn down the middle”.
https://twitter.com/Ravichandran15P/status/1354717854055063557
Sometimes you have extant taxa whose structures closely resemble that of a fossil – then they are called living fossils. We must thank the Malayalis for preserving and enabling such archaic forms of political structures. Joke is on you, guys, in case you still believe your models.
U mean to say communism is not the answer.
Oh my Periyar.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ndtv.com/india-news/punjab-cm-amarinder-singh-says-weapons-smuggling-by-pakistan-up-since-farm-protests-report-2360294%3famp=1&akamai-rum=off
“The Chief Minister said Pakistan has sleeper cells which they can activate and “a disturbed Punjab suits Pakistan’s policy”.
He also said that Pakistan and China are going to collude and 20 per cent of Indian Army soldiers belong to area where there has been concern among farmers about farm laws and the morale of troops can’t be allowed to go down.”
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tribuneindia.com/news/j-k/pakistan-violates-ceasefire-along-ib-in-jammu-and-kashmirs-kathua-205490
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202101/1214356.shtml
Hit piece from leftist sham publication
“According to Sikhs for Justice, this inability to repay farm loans has led to increased suicide rates amongst farmers in Punjab.
SFPD officers stand in front of the Consulate General of India building during the protest. The metal barricades in front of the building were pushed closer together to make room for the remaining group of protesters. (Jun Ueda / Golden Gate Xpress) (Jun Ueda)
A majority of protesters wore or flew Khalistan flags, a sign of the increased desire many Sikhs in Punjab have to secede from India. The Khalistan movement seeks to establish a sovereign state in Punjab and has gained popularity because many Sikhs feel as if they are underrepresented in the Indian government. Singh cited India’s refusal to recognize the Sikh’s referendum as a major roadblock toward an independent Khalistan”
https://goldengatexpress.org/96094/latest/news/bay-area-sikhs-protest-in-front-of-indian-consulate/
Man U folks seems more worried than Indians back home about Khalistan. It’s like Pakistan for NRIs
The republic day fiasco partially occured precisely because Indians in India underestimated the nefarious Khalistani crap going. In general though, this has become a classic Jat-land issue. This is a caste agitation to use violence to extort more Indian tax payer money. Leeches who want to continue to suck India dry. Funny how they spew vitriol against actual job creators. They want their 17th century land pride but with 20th century Marxist subsidies to buy 21st century luxary consumer goods.
RW Indians in India still fall for the ‘Sikhs are our saviors’ nonsense. Sikhs are put on a pedestal, while Bengalis, Tamils, Malayalis are deemed irredeemable.
Sad how some black dalit sharecroppers defend the the white Jat plantation owners.
“While more than 472 farmer unions from across the country are protesting the new farm laws and the farmers at Delhi’s borders have now been there for 40 days, this agitation is being led by farmers from Punjab. In Punjab, all communities own land, but Jats, who constitute 25% of the state’s population are the major landowners, while the Dalits who constitute 32% of Punjab’s population own only 2.3% of the agricultural land.
In 2014, for instance, when the Dalits of Bald Kalan village in Sangrur district demanded one-third of the village’s panchayati land on lease, they faced attacks from the police, court cases and even jail. Eventually, though, they won the right to a third of the commons.
Yet, landless labourer Harpal Singh of Bald Kalan joined the farmers from Punjab at the Delhi border, even though he has access to just 0.2 acres of the village panchayat land….
We have a relationship with farmers,” said Harpal, who is back in Bald Kalan. “If the new farm laws are not repealed, we will lose employment. It is our responsibility to stand with the farmers.”
https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.thewire.in/article/caste/punjab-landless-dalit-farmers-protest/amp
“All support for Khalistan was almost dead here in punjab until Nov 2019 when kartarpur corridor opened up. Now you can’t go a km in punjab without seeing a car with Bhindaranwala’s sticker or a road sign that has been vandalised to cover up Hindi and English. The soft support of local police and administration has emboldened these radicals. I hope the government comes to senses before we see a full scale revival of Khalistan.”
From reddit but heard similar sentiments before. Katarpur was bad news. Also, internet age and just growing wealthy critical mass of NRI khalistanks who are so desicated to propaganda, almost Trotskyesque in their approach, has changed the game. Pak also assists w/ clever promotion of Pan Punjabiyat. Seeds of Indimus vs. Ganges disunity are also being planted by them via extremely clever selective reading of history. You are dealing with PR pros, something the silent unity loving majority sorely lacks on the international stage, that too with the other behemoth of leftist media also contributing to this worsening mess..
https://theprint.in/opinion/amitabh-bachchan-was-once-casteless-hindu-tandav-ludo-now-flaunt-loud-proud-brahmins/595240/
The author does a decent job cataloguing the change, but fails to provide an answer. Anyone dares venture a guess as to why the culture shifted?
Simple. Brahmins can take a little bit of “criticism”. Do it to Yadavs – ham tod ke rakh denge. Same with Jats/Marathas/Rajputs etc. etc.
There have been precedents too – Karni Sena protest for “Jodha Akbar”, “Padmaavat”.
There is a saying in Bhojpuri – नंगा से भगवान ड़ेराला – God too fears a obdurate/stubborn person (Lost in translation – Sorry).
Where else in the world has ancient migrations/genetics steeped into modern political and cultural discourse? Like how your position in AMT vs OIT makes you leftist vs nationalist, western stooge vs proud hindu nationalist, etc etc..
From my (very uninformed) opinion, Celtic vs Anglo-saxon has parallels in Irish vs England troubles, etc
https://www.thequint.com/voices/opinion/delhi-farmers-agitation-red-fort-violence-khalistan-bogey-divisiveness-modi-govt-patriotism#read-more
“Farmers’ Protest: ‘I’m Indian & Sikh. Stop Calling Us Khalistanis’”
“I wonder what came first. Leftism or “less hindu.” It seems to me it is possible the prior came first.”
Hinduism’s patriarchy is quite stifling for a young liberated woman. There is a need for reform here or at least making space for spiritual liberated Hindu women. What she did not see was the possibility to carve your own space, and create your own journey, which may come in time.
Indian “economic reformers” and commies agree on one thing
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/new-laws-will-break-the-backbone-of-agriculture-sector-arundhati-roy/articleshow/80605179.cms?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=TOIDesktop
New laws will break the backbone of agriculture sector: Arundhati Roy ..
What are you talking about? “Reformer” is quite pro-laws. Even those against or only against for political reasons and not actual content, stating stuff like: “Laws are good but Modi should have spent more time convincing before trying to implement.”
” Even those against or only against for political reasons and not actual content,”
Yeah which doesn’t amount to much. Either you are for the reforms or against it. Which shows when rubber meets the road, how upright our “economic reformers” really are.
https://tamilfunda.com/bollywood-actors-caste-religion-list/amp/
Khatri Industry with Brahmin sprinkles. Small sunni muslim ashraf minority as well.
They need more caste diversity in the mainstream for sure, not just indy films.
@Razib
Would you consider starting a service like Healthtap for questions on genetics?
I was looking for history of Sugarcane and it appears to be domesticated in PNG/SE Asia around 8000BCE and sugar already shows up in Indian writing by 600BCE-0CE (with some genetic evidence of PNG version hybridizing with Indian varieties by 1000BCE). A very cursory search online says it as “voyage by Austronesians” to give sugarcane to India. Early Austronesians can be conducting sea voyages that far regularly that early? Does anybody know a good reference to look up how domesticated sugarcane arrived in India?
AskHistorians on Reddit is a good place to ask.
that seems a bit early, though not impossible (austronesian contact)
most of the austronesian stuff in the indian ocean seems to be well after 0 AD
@Violet
Word etymology indicates that the origin of crystallised sugar is India – some Indian cultivar varieties (not the Polynesian) are noted to have been from as early as 1500 BCE.
Indian textual tradition holds that the Ikshvaku lineage held a lot of sugarcane plantations and monopolised crystal production. The word Ikshu is interchangeably used for sugar in many texts.
One of the many important primers to hold that Ramayana is a Gangetic Plains tradition is the extent of archaeologically attested sugarcane cultivation in Ancient India. Rama belonged to the Ikshvaku dynasty.
Sugar has been found paleobotanically in the Indus Valley at the Rojdi site.
@Ugra,
I was enquiring about genetic evidence of hybridized sugarcane in India with PNG domesticated variety estimated to have happened at 1000BCE. Sugar can be extracted from different sources (E.g. palm sugar mainly from coconuts).
Note that Indians didn’t domesticate coconuts ever. There can be use of plants from wild varieties without any selective breeding just because of the abundance.
Another interesting feature is that coconut trees didn’t reach North India even by the time of Chanukya but sugarcane of hybridized variety did (apparently) by around 1000BCE. Don’t you find this too strange without some sort of people travel?
The dispersal method of coconuts is floating on water across large distances They have even evolved to achieve this by making lighter mesocarps. So the reasons for non-travel to North India could be entirely botanical – lack of a dispersal mechanism.
Human domestication of plants produces a rather diminishing effect on their reproductive capability – they enter a vegetative state very quickly. The seeds become smaller, sometimes they don’t split to give up their innards for dispersal. So in the neolithic, it might have been an counter-intuitive action to limit to wild breeding to retain fecundity.
Look up Nikolai Vavilov “centers of origin” theory – he only identified 8 centers of domestication throughout the world in the Neolithic – sugarcane and coconut are in the Indian center. Rice is heavily disputed – its is either China or India. He put it in China.
@Ugra,
Just take the next step in your logic. Coconuts can reach shores of India but can’t travel north without human travel. Sugarcane of PNG variety can’t reach shores of India without human travel.
Two things here:
1) It is likely North-South travel isn’t common enough to carry coconut to North (coconut has no problem growing in Bihar).
2) Austronesian humans could be going across oceans before the time frame commonly agreed.
How did sugarcane of PNG variety arrived on Indian shores and travelled up North that early?
Are you arguing that sugarcane of PNG variety never came to India? Because Saccharam baberi (Indian variety) is hybridized with Saccharum officinarum (PNG variety domesticated in 8000BCE) by 1000BCE (ref. Genomics of Saccharine, Patterson et al. 2013).
Or are you saying south Indians were travelling all over to get PNG sugarcane (by sea) and send coconut palm sugar to north Indians (by land)?
I don’t care to argue for merits of domestication because the central objective is to find evidence for timeline of sugarcane hybridization in India. Sugar can exist without sugarcane and so, evidence of sugar timeline itself is not useful for sugarcane inference. Sugar timeline can be leveraged if all other sources of sugar production can be identified. However, it is not “sufficient” evidence because we can never be conclusive of all possible high sugar content liquid sources prior to 1000BCE in India.
There is a difference between “cultivation” and “domestication”. Indian coconut is cultivated without domestication.
Perhaps you should look up the geography contained in the Indian center.
Another interesting feature is that coconut trees didn’t reach North India even by the time of Chanukya but sugarcane of
Might be the cold.
Even in Sri Lanka 5 degrees from the equator coconut does not grow above 500m elevation.
coconut grows easily in bangalore which is on a >900m plateau. That said, according to old timers, the planting of it away from the coast is a fashion of recent generations
girmit
That said, according to old timers, the planting of it away from the coast is a fashion of recent generations
That makes sense for Sri Lanka too. The hill country above 500m, above Gampola started getting populated after the British (1815). Cleared virgin forest Initially for Coffee and then after the blight tea. South Indian labor was used. I think even now the majority population is of South Indian origin brought by the brits.
Under the Sinhalese Kings it was forbidden to settle in the highlands above gampola. They were well aware the forests were responsible for rain and that all the rivers originate in the high mountains,
Has anyone here read Greater Magadha by Johannes Bronkhorst?
I am considering ordering it on Amazon. A bit skeptical since not sure of the author’s ideological leanings. I don’t mind those leanings but don’t appreciate it when facts are left out or too much subterfuge is applied to connect historical events with modern politics.
I have read 20% of it. Seems a bit of a over analysis – not sure if that’s ideological or otherwise.
Some critiques of Brahmanism seem like templated ( fitting evidences)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xszj1flDxl0&ab_channel=BenShapiro
simple explanation for people who aren’t familiar with short-selling. I think most of the regular posters are, but there may be lurkers who might not be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5IFNHOsJpg&ab_channel=assimalhakeem
The answer is basically “No” for all practical purposes. Yes I know there are many schools of thought. But I generally here people from other religions, especially Hinduism, philosophize and beat around the bush. Perhaps that is the pluralistic nature of the faith. Here the answers are quite direct. I can see the appeal in such thinking for some.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/07/01/india-islamophobia-global-bjp-hindu-nationalism-canada/
This is going to be tough. Islam is global. Hinduism isn’t. NRIs have to be careful.
https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/ludhiana/fresh-mobilisation-in-punjab-villages-to-send-women-jathas-7168400/lite/
Fresh mobilisation in Punjab villages to send women jathas
I think they’re trying to do a shaheen bagh
Lol just wtf. So stubborn about nonsense
https://swarajyamag.com/amp/story/economy%2Fwhat-the-economic-survey-says-fueling-growth-with-borrowed-money
What The Economic Survey Says About Fueling Growth With Borrowed Money
…… this renewed thinking is important as it signals a departure from the conventional hawkish stance on the fiscal front which has been criticized by many.
As the budget is due on the 1st, here’s hoping that the findings of this chapter are duly considered and eventually we do get a more accommodative fiscal stance over the next couple of years as growth indeed is critical to ensure debt-sustainability
how can india deal with iran, in light of the recent bomb blast? will shias also become like sardars, a failed project of the hindutva brigade?
i feel that since now, the agitation is being led by up jats, who are susceptible for compromise as there are bjp jat mps who can open an channel to the jats, i can see a compromise and end to agitation in 15 days.
Or the opposite could happen, where seeing the Jat agitation the BJP MPs might be forced to side with the community to stay politically relevant.
https://twitter.com/MrSamratX/status/1355816434404741122
“The real price of India’s independence was paid by Bengalis and Punjabis who lost their lives and properties in Partition, while others ran away with the country”
As i have said, all Indian ethnicities think they ‘own’ India and paid a price for its Independence, totally blindsided from the fact of their collaboration with the Brits. Right now its Punjabis, tomorrow it will another ethnicity.
already there is talk of a respectable ending. i feel govt did a good thing in arresting a few ‘farmers’ who are now pawns in an exchange deal!!!
Any solutions people?
after the budget a meeting with modi will be arranged. tikaits will be made to look like winners…..
yeah this is a huge loss. BJP has learned an important lesson. It has to be savvier next time. A lot of this is just Delhi’s unfortunate geography
https://swarajyamag.com/economy/what-the-economic-survey-says-fueling-growth-with-borrowed-money
https://swarajyamag.com/economy/economic-survey-india-should-obsess-more-with-growth-than-inequality-as-the-former-has-far-bigger-impact-on-poverty
Something leftists cannot fathom
https://swarajyamag.com/economy/economic-survey-india-should-obsess-more-with-growth-than-inequality-as-the-former-has-far-bigger-impact-on-poverty
Comment actually applied to this one ^. Leftists like deficit spending but are too fearful of “inequality” bogeyman.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/features/2021/1/31/the-financial-burden-of-weddings-on-indias-poorest-families
Decent article related to India for once from Al Jihada
My girlfriend was just messaged on facebook by a random stranger who claims to know my identity and says I have spread “false” stuff about Khalistan, leftism, and radical islamic terrorism and the connection between the three online. They told her to spread it to all Punjabis I know and to talk to me about it. They said some other very odd stuff.
Funny how Khalistanis just prove my points over and over again. The online harassment continues.
Fact
Khalistan movement had committed terrorist acts
Fact
There is a Jat Sikh ethnonationalist component to it. Of course, not all Jatt Sikhs are part of it and even those who are, of course all don’t endorse terrorism. But stll, on balance the movement aims to destabalize India, including via terrorist means, from historical plane hijacking to the killing Hindus through the early 80s in Punjab.
Fact
It is has links to Pak ISI which has links to known Jihadist groups
Fact
It has known links to leftist organizations, epitomized by known Khalistani, Jagmeet Singh, and his affiliation with socialist parties in Canada.
I have spoken out against racism, bigotry, etc for awhile. Ironically, most of the race trolls I have faced who have denigrated me and others like me have been from one group. Most in that group are not like this. But those who have trolled and harassed me, including now those who I love tend to be from that group.
They also brought up “anthroscape,” a now down raceboard. Funny thing is that none of my posts on there were anything but me calling out and arguing with racists. Ironic the mental gymnastics these people do.
I will continue to spread and speak truth to power.
re budget: which are the public sector banks which are to be sold??
Hopefully all of them.
The good thing abt the Budget it no longer tries to stick to fiscal deficit numbers, there is no need to fight battles with one hand behind ur back, when ur opponents (Commies and Congress) don’t stick to the (fiscal deficit) rules.
Fiscal discipline is understandably hard to maintain in a populist democracy but IMHO it’s worth paying a political price. But one would hope, given the BJP’s impregnable hold on political power, that their budgetary (and other) policies wouldn’t be guided by the petty concerns of trying to outmaneuver pipsqueak opponents like the Congress or the Commies.
If only folks/region who don’t BJP or still vote for Commies/Congress had that much foresight.
I wont begrudge BJP breaking the bank to become political superior. At the end of the day its a pollical party, and i wont put restrictions or have demands from them which i wont from Congress or Commies. But that;s just me.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/texas-high-school-recruiting-mexican-101438239.html
Interesting idea
Also, interesting strawmans people use. When I say I hate the Khalistan movement, people mislabel me as hating Punjabis and Sikhs in general. When I saw I hate radical islam terrorism, they claim I hate all Muslims. When I say I hate the genocidal authoritarian CCP and the radical left, they claim I hate all Chinese and American Democrats (voted for Biden btw).
With the post above, they will now claim I hate all Latinos.
I have spent again the majority of my time arguing with supremacists, people who actually make themselves and their own groups look bad by being bigoted representatives. That is what I do. Now they are trying to label me as one. The projection is the epitome of irony.
Cool visualisation of the Indian budget for 2021-22:
should have titled it guru https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/razib-khan-pagans-christians-antiwoke-mage/
Any tips for trolls targeting family members?
read the full post. the comments section was as interesting as the original post. looks like you confused people mightily with your pagans vs christians analogy. but good write up overall. (and i am assuming the over-dramatic tone was tongue-in-cheek really.)
try to ‘zero’ yourself out of as much stuff as possible.
also, change names etc.
the % of brown paid subs to my substack is like 25%!!!
wow. thanks brownfolk!
https://swarajyamag.com/world/military-takeover-of-myanmar-china-suspected-to-have-orchestrated-coup-to-re-establish-its-grip-on-the-country-and-its-resources
Scary stuff
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/president-macron-gets-tough-with-radical-islam-after-death-of-samuel-paty-tdsh35fqq/
President Macron’s crackdown on radical Islam reaches parliament today as a wide-ranging bill proposes to curtail cultural practices.
The so-called law against separatism is intended to curb the spread of fundamentalist Islamic doctrines that feed terrorism and reject the laws and values of the French state.
Its 70 measures, which include limiting home schooling, a ban on preaching in sports clubs, a purge on religious symbols from public services and outlawing virginity certificates, were toughened after a jihadist beheaded Samuel Paty, a teacher, near Paris, and three people were stabbed to death by a Tunisian migrant in Nice.
In response to Paty’s death, the government shut a number of mosques, prayer halls, and religious associations deemed to be Islamist.
Prefects, or county governors, will have power to order local authorities to stop religious practices such as single-sex swimming sessions at public pools that are deemed to breach France’s strict laws of secularism in public services. Staff at privately run public services, such as Paris airports, will no longer be allowed to wear hijab headscarves or other religious garments.
Home schooling will only be allowed in exceptional circumstances to prevent parents from keeping girls at home and subjecting them to religious education.
In an attempt to rid the country of foreign-financed preachers, a new register of imams is being set up by French Muslim leaders. They have also agreed with the government on a code that commits imams to respecting “Republican values”, including gender and racial equality and freedom to espouse any religion or none.
Meanwhile, Cuckrenda has frozen CAA and UCC is nowhere to be found.
Yeah India is very bad about implementing measures to stop radicalization of Islamic youth. Unfortunate how some are brainwashed in madrassas and how women are treated under Sharia. They really have to get a move on with UCC. CAA I feel less strongly about because of the religious test nature of it. They should be against all illegal immigration in general.
Modi has been quite soft. I think he is using all his political capital on much needed neoliberal reforms for now. The culture wars will start again around election time.
Lol, hadn’t followed for a bit, but this whole protest thing seems to have gone batshit crazy, don’t understand who wants what anymore
Khalistanis celebrating Gandhi’s statue being vandalized, while condemning anyone that celebrates Godse
RW trending Godse, but condemning Khalistanis that attack Gandhi’s statue (maybe they see it as an indirect attack on India? idk)
And some Khalistanis sound like they’re ready to shoot any Gujju (throw in some hate for Brahmins too, for whatever reason) that ever shows up at their doorstep
Diaspora ones seem to be extra dramatic (insane gatekeeping too), Bollywood runs in their veins
They targeted my family on social media. They want to strawman anyone against the protest and their separatism as someone who is bigoted against Sikhs and pro genocide. I have no idea how they got my info, but they did. And they are misrepresenting me. They also contacted my cousin. They are malicious about trying to shut down the speech of others.
Just for the record. 1984 was wrong. I don’t hate Sikhs or anyone for their religion, but I am against Khalistan. Targeting my family is off base. Go after me directly. Message me on here or wherever for a constructive debate. Don’t make Facebook troll accounts and harass my loved ones.
You’re American- get a gun (legally).
Take care, buddy. Please report the profiles doing this.