Expanding CAA (working evolving draft)
Would like to propose expanding CAA to include the following groups of muslims to:
- get everyone’s feedback on what can practically pass the Indian Lokh Sabha quickly
- see if several major Indian leaders will publicly endorse this
The following text will be continually edited based on feedback.
Proposing to expand CAA to include the following “AND ONLY THE FOLLOWING” groups of muslims IF AND ONLY IF they can prove persecution inside Bangladesh, Pakistan or Afghanistan:
- 13 classes AND ONLY 13 CLASSES of Muraqabah Sufi muslims:
- 3 classes of Muraqabah Irfan Sufi Shia muslims
- Sixer Ishmaeli Muraqabah Irfan Sufi Shia muslims
- Dawoodi Bohra Sixer Ishmaeli Muraqabah Irfan Sufi Shia muslims
- Twelver Jafari Muraqabah Irfan Sufi Shia muslims
- 10 other classes of Muraqabah Sufi muslims
- Chisti Muraqabah Sufi muslims
- Qadiri Muraqabah Sufi muslims
- Pir Nund Rishi Muraqabah Sufi muslims
- Pir Shirdi Sai Nath Muraqabah Sufi muslims
- Pir Kabir Muraqabah Sufi muslims
- Pir Janardhan Swami Muraqabah Sufi muslims
- Pir Hazrat Babajan Muraqabah Sufi muslims
- Pir Syed Mohammed Baba Tajuddin Muraqabah Sufi muslims
- Pir Baba Fariduddin Ganjshakar Muraqabah Sufi muslims
- Pir Baba Budan Muraqabah Sufi muslims
- Agnostic, Atheist and Ex muslims
- LBGTQ plus muslims
- Female femnist muslims
Any and all Muraqabah Sufi muslims admitted under CAA need to be certified and verified as Muraqabah Sufi muslims by a council of Muraqabah Sufi muslims chaired by Pir Diwan Sahib Syed Zainul Abedin. Pir Diwan Sahib Syed Zainul Abedin will appoint a committee of Muraqabah Sufi muslims at his own discretion to assist him in this task.
Any and all Agnostic, Atheist and Ex muslims, LBGTQ plus muslims and female femnist muslims admitted under CAA need to be certified and verified by a council of muslims chaired by Tarek Fatah . Tarek Fatah will appoint a committee of muslims at his own discretion to assist him in this task.
In addition to approval by above councils of muslims, any and all muslim CAA applicants are subject to extensive deep background security checks and can be vetoed by the Indian government for any reason.
NO OTHER MUSLIMS will be permitted to apply for CAA. No other aspect of CAA will be affected.
Please provide your suggestions about how to improve the above draft.
India is like any country, and any country has the right to admit or refuse immigrants as they see fit, for any reason. Most people (besides Muslims) have no issue with India picking and choosing its favorite religious or ethnic groups to grant citizenship to.
What people have a problem with, is India stripping citizenship from Indian Muslims, and then tying this disenfranchisement to the granting of citizenship for foreign refugees. “If you care about persecuted Hindus in Pakistan, you’ll vote to throw Indian Muslims in concentration camps”.
This is why there’s so much disdain for the NRC-CAA push, both internationally and from liberal and minority groups in India. Its naked ethnic cleansing.
As with many other issues, much of the frustration felt by Hindu Nationalists on this topic has to do with them not realizing how transparent (and poor) their propaganda on this has been. Any argument will seem persuasive to true believers, but to the rest of us, its just a bad joke.
Just like Pak is a bad joke. Sadly, some do want to copy the theocractic model
Islam is not an ethnicity. And it is not an enthoreligious entity like Judaism was for Ashkenazi jewery . so it isn’t “ethnic cleansing.”
CAA in and of itself has good elements. Those state less Hindus here 2014 and prior that the rule helps were pretty fucked and had no chance in brutal Pak. Whereas Rohingya have a much better assimilation chance in Bangla. But I agree groups like ahmediya should have been added. Also there is the 2014 aspect of the rule
Taqiyyaman: “My word is my bond!”
It will likely require many decades to implement NRC across India. The PM’s office has indicated that Bangladeshi illegal immigrants inside India will not be deported under NRC and that the NRC will not be implemented for now. The Indian Supreme Court has ordered NRC and not the Indian government.
Almost all Indians have more than six proofs of residence. If anyone does not have any proof of residence they need to provide three witnesses that are willing to testify that they have lived in India for a long time. It is hard to imagine any poor Indian resident who can’t provide proof of residence.
Warlock, adding Ahmediya to CAA is controversial with some parts of the Indian polity. For this reason Ahmediya have not been included in the above list for now. It is more important for the Lokh Sabha to pass SOMETHING quickly than for the Lokh Sabha to pass the perfect expansion of CAA. Do you have any other proposed edit of the above other than adding Ahmediya?
Rohingya are not eligible under CAA because only Afghans, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are eligable to apply under CAA.
Ethnic Cleansing criteria includes religious groups, per everyone. You sound like those edgy Arabs who claim they can’t be antisemitic because Arabs are also Semites.
CAA alone is fine. NRC alone is fine. The two together are a tool to ethnically cleanse Muslims.
Hindu Nationalists have been enthralled with Pakistan from day 1. The ease with which all the ethnic groups conformed to Urdu, the focus on an overriding religious identity, abusing human rights and not giving a shit what the West thinks, the masculine-military orientation of the state.
These things, like 26-inch rims on a broken down car, seem cool to idiots (Hindu Nationalists), but are ultimately worthless, and only disguise serious issues.
So, you admit whatever is happening in Pakistan is worthless and only disguise serious issues. Better late than never admit the worthlessness of Pakistani happenings.
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As ethnic cleansing has not been recognized as an independent crime under international law, there is no precise definition of this concept or the exact acts to be qualified as ethnic cleansing. A United Nations Commission of Experts mandated to look into violations of international humanitarian law committed in the territory of the former Yugoslavia defined ethnic cleansing in its interim report S/25274 as “… rendering an area ethnically homogeneous by using force or intimidation to remove persons of given groups from the area.” In its final report S/1994/674, the same Commission described ethnic cleansing as “… a purposeful policy designed by one ethnic or religious group to remove by violent and terror-inspiring means the civilian population of another ethnic or religious group from certain geographic areas.”
^From UN website. So diff definitions. Not everyone agrees. QED.
Should be called religious cleansing. The term “ethnic” obfuscates things because it is a misnomer at best then. Semantics regardless. And Pak implementing urdu all over was good for Pak. India failed at national language project.
And China is a big threat moving forward. Even if India Pak things improve, the arms race won’t end. And with India continuing to arm Pak will do the same. It just goes in a circle.
I think demographic shift in Kashmir is the only thing that will solve anything long term and good security as it happens.
Free movement of people and goods is what makes for a united nation. This stalemate of letting the Valley continue to be a homogeneous islamist place after genocide of Pandits, is just going to maintain poor status quo.
And hopefully both countries become more atheist over time so this nonsense ends. Although, I notice atheist Pakistanis tend to be hardcore racists and resort to chamar exclusionary Punjabi supremacism. I think Islam does provide some impetus for less racialist thinking. My hope tho is that woke BLM type stuff will leak in. Maybe then the general S Asian racial aversion to the dark and less caucasoid peoples among their polites will decline. Maybe some semblance of an egalitarian society can emerge.
The Pandits ???.
Racist attitudes are prevalent everywhere, and everyone acts like a hypocrite about it. North Indians love stereotyping South Indians as lesser, but cry when Pakistanis do it to them. Pakistanis love doing it to North Indians, but cry when Afghans do it to them. And Iranians to Afghans, and Southern-Europeans to Iranians, and Northern-Europeans to Southern, etc.
I think the north indian vs south indian thing is overstated and there are a lot of intermediate groups.
Pakistani’s have a bit of an identity crises going on after the Bangladesh liberation war. And for obvious reasons they don’t want to ally with India and so need to forge a new non-indic identity so this makes it a bit more pronounced.
Most Paksitani Pashtuns seem to be fairly patriotic Pakistanis tbh, so don’t see as much tension between ethnic Afghans and ethnic Punjabis / Sindhis / Saraikis, but a Pakistani person would know better.
only you would laugh at genocide. Granted, the pure continue to do it and then play the false equivalency game. it hasn’t paid any dividends. So that’s the real comedy like when Imran Khan defends stuff like Charlie Hebdo by saying it “hurt sentiments” like in his UN rant lmfao. Pak is the only nation capable in S Asia of being a Nazi state.
They literally attempted to rape their way in Bangladesh in order to “aryanize it,” per quotes of their own generals.
Demographic shift is the best solution. I stand by it again. Need to have tax incentives and strong security to get people and businesses in move in slowly but surely into the valley. By interacting and befriending others, they will see a more common humanity and things will change, thus not requiring such a military heavy hand to combat constant radical Pak deep state sponsored cross border and homegrown radical islamic terrorism.
Seconding the comments of thewarlock the wise.
This is literally not-even-wrong.
I have never heard a Hindu nationalist say anything nice about Pakistan (and why should they? It’s Upper Volta with missiles, and that’s all it ever will be).
They admire Israel and Japan a lot though.
How does it justify the cleansing of Hindus in Pakisthan and Kashmir and Bangladesh?
As well as as genocides of Balauch and suppression of Muhajirs in so call a” pak”isthan.
I don’t think you know what the word “genocide” means or you are using it way too loosely to make your ideological point.
The Baloch have not been exterminated by the Pakistani state. They are very much living in their province: Balochistan. There are Baloch who are involved in governing their province. BNP-M was until recently in coalition with PTI in Islamabad. Yes, there is a problem with Baloch separatism just like India faces a freedom struggle in Occupied Kashmir. However, unlike Kashmir, Balochistan is not a DISPUTED TERRITORY. It is unequivocally a province of Pakistan.
Islamabad does need to address the legitimate grievances of the Baloch people but the comparison to Occupied Kashmir is beyond ridiculous.
Expand the CAA to allow anyone in who is willing to march to the Ladakh border and fight the Chinese! (Like the Americans did with Irish immigrants during their Civil War.) ?
Well only folks who could do that in Ladakh are the Gorkhas and Dogras, but both of them are already in Indian army so…
I don’t know if this post is meant to be satire, but I’ll assume it’s serious.
1. Muslims can still go to India and apply through regular channels. Expedited citizenship is not necessary for humane treatment, and anyone granted entry should be granted safety. I don’t know the numbers of people we are talking about.
2. People outside India STILL avoid talking about the real issue – which is holding these three countries accountable in international fora, rather than micromanaging India’s laws. Resolving issues locally is best for these. If there is a good case for humanitarian intervention, those oppressed should be granted refugee status in Western democracies, depending on how much they can handle, not in India.
Numinous, plan a seperate post on comprehensive Indian immigration reform. You are absolutely right that any brave hero who joins the Indian military and fights for India should be allowed to become an Indian citizen.
The USA and other countries have provisions like that. Every country should.
However, wanted to draft something very limited that the Lokh Sabha could pass now to expand CAA . . . and don’t want to complicate things.
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VV, this proposal is completely serious. Wanted to draft something that the PM can present before the Lokh Sabha and pass almost immediately. And see if the various Brown Pundit Indian guests will endorse it. If the list of allowed muslims needs to be narrowed to achieve concensus, then so be it.
“Muslims can still go to India and apply through regular channels. Expedited citizenship is not necessary for humane treatment, and anyone granted entry should be granted safety. I don’t know the numbers of people we are talking about.”
1000% agreed.
” People outside India STILL avoid talking about the real issue – which is holding these three countries accountable in international fora, rather than micromanaging India’s laws. Resolving issues locally is best for these. If there is a good case for humanitarian intervention, those oppressed should be granted refugee status in Western democracies, depending on how much they can handle, not in India.”
Pakistanis kill Shia, Sufi (meaning spiritual Sufis rather than conservative Sunnis posing as Sufis), atheists, femnists and LBGTQ for breakfast, lunch and dinner. They won’t stop even if the rest of the world begs them too. Why bother trying?
India shouldn’t care what any foreigner thinks or says.
Afghanistan, Pakistan and Bangladesh were part of India from before 4000 BC to 632 AD. Their people, culture and civilization are part of Indian Bharatiya Itihaasa.
If India does not look after her own family, who else will?
There is a large and rich tradition of Indian muslims (or Hindu muslims, Hindustani muslims, Bharatiya muslims) who love India with an intensity that few others can match. This proposal is aimed at allowing THESE muslims into India, and NOT any other muslims.
Muraqabah muslims represent the fusion of Noor Islam (Islam of light) with Sanaathana Dharma. If India does not save them from genocide, who else will?
India has since 629 AD (when India constructed the first mosque in the world three years before the prophet pbuh passed away) been the protector of Ahl al-Bayt (family of the prophet). India has for more than 8 thousand years been the protector of atheists, femnists and LBGTQ.
How can India abandon them to genocide now?
I would just have a normal refugee system like Western countries have.
Like in many Western countries, administrative rules can expedite the settlement of certain groups of refugees on the basis of a variety of factors. Some countries will expedite processing for claimants from neighboring countries that come through land ports (which is something India can consider). Other countries will expedite processing for claimants for certain categories of refugees — for example, in some Western countries, an Iranian homosexual refugee claimant who can establish their homosexuality will be expedited with less review given the situation for homosexuals in Iran.
Have a neutral, normal, efficient, fair refugee system. Use administrative rules to expedite the settlement of the flow of ~5,000 Hindu refugees from Pakistan. Use administrative rules to give Dharmic minorities who already exist in India illegally a pathway to citizenship. For others, evaluate on a case-by-case basis.
So basically have a modern refugee system, but use administrative rules that provide ‘rules of thumb’ for certain categories of refugees to expedite things for those claimants. This may also include, for example, Ahmadis in Pakistan.
I would rather India not have a refugee based on discrimination type of system. It is far too lax and open for interpretation. Especially in the neighborhood we live in, where there are all types of discrimination.
Its wrong for other ethnicity who do not share trans national pops to carry their burden. If anything this can lead to civil strife within India (Assam-Bengali, Jammu-Rohingyas etc) . India also is not refugee central of subcontinent. The western powers who care for all this should put pressure on the host countries rather than expect India, just because its at least better.
The only suggestion i have is all states get to vote if we shoudl take in any specific type of refugee, and where will they housed. If the host state does not want it (Bengali-Bangladesh, Punjab-Punjabis) then whole thing should be called off. At least the people of the state should know where their chosen state govt stands.
//Pakistanis kill .. They won’t stop even if the rest of the world begs them too. Why bother trying?//
Hang on – you’re saying there is a genocide happening, and the world doesn’t have a stake? The world needs to recognize this is happening in official organizations (not just on blogs). This is what was done for Rohingyas successfully, so I don’t see why it can’t be done here. This has obvious benefits:
1. it actually DOES put pressure on Pakistanis to reduce if not cease oppression. i.e. it saves lives and buys time.
2. it defines the problem more accurately. We are likely talking about millions of people, not the limited term 50,000 that the CAA was designed for. There is an obvious capacity issue in India, and if we truly care about these humans, we would allow relocation globally.
3. It forces tough conversations that are needed in the subcontinent, rather than an ‘easy fix’ which may not create overall harm reduction.
//Afghanistan, Pakistan and Bangladesh were part of … Bharatiya Itihaasa…If India does not look after her own family, who else will?//
When they were part of Bharat, there was also more land and a relatively wealthy society, and no baggage. Now we’re talking about a developing country. Genetic commonality isn’t the issue, nor was it ever for the Hindu ethos. The issue is the 70 year old socio-ideological mess, and the lies we tell ourselves about cherry-picking facts (everyone does this).
You mention a number of sub-sects – I’m not well educated in the details. Some obvious questions come to mind:
– what are their thoughts about dharmic people? what are their thoughts about each other? do they consider them Kafirs, and if so, do we want an oppressed population from a theocratic countries who themselves don’t hold secular values? is this going to reduce harm in the overall system – or transfer it from one geographic location to another?
//How can India abandon them to genocide now?//
There are many places in the world, not just India. I sound really harsh when I read my own words above, but we need an honest discussion on these issues, including whether the Indian state can do justice to an unlimited supply of new migrants given it’s a social welfare society.
The white Westerners will happily watch a genocide happen and cover it in WaPo and NYT post-facto. So the leadership falls on India – my submission is that this blog post is jumping to a solution before the ground work has been done.
VV, good look with Pakistan. Being serious.
No country in the world is as unpopular and viewed with has much fear and resentment as Pakistan. Iraqis, Iranian, Afghans, Indonesians and many other muslims around the world view Pakistan with great hostility while loving India. Anyone with intelligence knows what Pakistan has been doing since 1947. Almost everyone has given up doing anything about it.
The total number of muslims who will be affected by this CAA expansion will be very small. Note that they all have to be approved by one of two muslim councils. These muslim councils will be fiercely patriotic and audit everyone very carefully. If you want to discuss why these two patriotic muslims were chosen to head these councils we can speak offline.
The vast majority of Pakistani muslims who need protection will not be eligible to participate under CAA. India can ask India’s close friends Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Turkey, Indonesia, Malaysia, Azerbaijan etc. to give them refuge. India cannot as easily make this request if India refuses to accept any muslims under CAA.
Any muslims included will need to fiercely love India. They will be orders more patriotic than JNU.
With respect to the included Muraqabah muslims ONLY (most Muraqabah muslims are not eligible):
“what are their thoughts about dharmic people?” They love Dharmic people.
“what are their thoughts about each other?”
deep respect
“do they consider them Kafirs, and if so, do we want an oppressed population from a theocratic countries who themselves don’t hold secular values?”
Here is a good summary of what the Chistis think:
http://sufi-mystic.net/index2.htm
“is this going to reduce harm in the overall system – or transfer it from one geographic location to another?”
Only a few will be admitted to India. We can discuss offline futher if it is of interest.
Here is one quote from the Chisti website:
“Q74: What is the opinion of sufis about Hinduism?
Ans.: “Az yak chiragh kaba-o-butkhana roshan ast.”
The same lamp illumines both the Ka aba and the Temple.”
All those muslims , now being persecuted in Pakistan, fought for Pakistan in 1947 ; Jinnah was a Shia , Ahmediya sent in Al-Fuqran brigade to invade Jammu-Kashmir
They can all enjoy Karma in islamic paradise
Gsubrec, many muslims preferred India to Pakistan and opposed partition.
Have you been to Shirdi, Ajmer, Daulatabad, Charari Sharief, Nizammuddin Auliyah Dargah, Fatehpur Sikri, Kabir’s Dargah in Kashi, Gulgarbha Dargah, Babajan Dargah in Pune, Nagpur Dargah, Baba Budangiri?
They represent the light of Bharat. Would you really let the Islamist Jihadis kill all of them?
Ah Ajmer Sufi, if you read his life, he killed a cow daily in Hindu temple and got punished by Prithviraj Chauhan – he then asked Mohammed Ghori to invade India – Then at age 60, he kidnapped 6 year daughter of local Raja and married her, as per Sunnah of the Prophet ;
1947 partition riots organised by Sufi, not by Deobandi Mullah ; Noakhali riot organised by local Sufi
Sufis are the islamic equivalent of white Christian missionaries during colonial rule ;
“he killed a cow daily in Hindu temple and got punished by Prithviraj Chauhan – he then asked Mohammed Ghori to invade India – Then at age 60, he kidnapped 6 year daughter of local Raja and married her, as per Sunnah of the Prophet ;
1947 partition riots organised by Sufi, not by Deobandi Mullah ; Noakhali riot organised by local Sufi
Sufis are the islamic equivalent of white Christian missionaries during colonial rule ;”
We do not agree. Have known about these rumors for some time and will hopefully provide a long form response in the distant future.
“1947 partition riots organised by Sufi, not by Deobandi Mullah ; Noakhali riot organised by local Sufi”
Many conservative Sunnis pose as Sufis. They should “NOT” be permitted into India. You will note that many Sufi Muraqabah silsilas are purposely excluded above. The above 13 Muraqabah Silsilas were carefully chosen.
If you have evidence against one or more of these Silsilas, please provide it.
Many within the Sanaathana Dharma fold have killed “गो” or cow. Mysterious are the Brahma Rishis, Brahma Jnaanis and their unpredictable acts. Shirdi Sai Nath served beef to his muslim devotees.
Mohammed Ghori invaded Bhaarat and won his war as per his personal karma. The greater fault is in Bhaarat in not rallying to defeat his occupation after 1193 AD.
The Gareeb Nawaz protected many Sanathana Dharma Sampradayas from Islamists. Many Sanathana Dharma Sampradayas retain close relations to the Chisti to this day. Many of the great Maha Purushas have been connected to the Chisti Pirs all along (including the Dattatreya avataras–such as Narasimha Saraswati and Swami Samarth–the Kashmiri Shaivite Trika, Nath Sampradaaya, 18 Siddha Siddhaanta). Ramakrishna was a practicing Muraqabah Sufi. There have been close links between Shaivite Sampradaayas and many Sufi Silsila lines going back to Imam Ali. Remember that the first mosque in the world was built by Sanaathana Dharmis in 629 AD in India–three years before the prophet pbuh passed away. In 632 AD when Takfiri Jihadi tried to kill the family of the prophet, they were given sanctuary in India. If you read Muraqabah–much of it reads almost identical with many Sanaathana Dharma texts, including Shaivite texts and the Saamkhya Yoga Sutras of Patanjali.There is a private discourse and a public discourse. The two are different. Once India becomes safe for muslims to talk freely without threat of Takfiri assasination–a lot of these connections will become apparent.
“Sufis are the islamic equivalent of white Christian missionaries during colonial rule”
Most self described Sufis are as you describe. The above are chosen because they are closer to Sarva Dharma Sama Bhaava Sarva Shresht. One can join their orders and accept their masters as Gurus (Murshid) without conversion to Islam.
Only ahmadis perhaps and they are few hundred thousands at must. Shia’s are way too dominant in Pakistan to give away all that for 2nd class status in India.
shias that seem to be targetted in Pakistan nowdays are hazaras by pashtun terrorists. Its not just because of religion but race. Ethnic cleansing of hazaras by pashtuns is going on for few hundred years.
Raz,
Only Muraqabah Irfan Sufi Shia. No other Shia. These spiritual Shia are targetted inside Pakistan. Note that this applies to Afghanistan and Bangladesh too.
Ahmedis are left off the above list because many in the BJP don’t want them included.