{{{Brahmins}}} do not descend from a common group

Hello Rose,

You seem new to all of this. So I will try to be relatively succinct. I hope you are able to get the gestalt from my explanation. This issue is complex and ever changing.

Peopling of the Indian Subcontinent

1. First out of Africa migration brought indigenous people to S Asia. They are distantly related to the current Andaman Islanders and even more distantly related to Australian aboriginals. We name this component AASI.

2. Second wave brought people that split of from Iranian Mesolithic Hunter Gatherers. They came quite long ago but established the Indus Valley Civilization about 2500-3000 (perhaps older) BCE. They simultaneously mixed with the AASI population present. Therefore, skeletal samples of these people recently analyzed show a majority Indus Valley component and a minority AASI. No one knows the language of these people. But they built a complex civilization with written language and even plumbing. It is hypothesized that they possibly spoke the precursor of modern day Dravidian languages of South India. The resolved the public defecation issue that India still quite has not gotten right. They spanned the modern day Indian states of Punjab, Haryana, and Gujarat. They spanned the modern Pakistani states of Punjab and Sindh. There were images on their walls that are suggestive yoga poses, and there are images to suggest they, like many of their contemporaries, were polytheistic peoples.

3. People residing in current day Eastern Europe and Northwest Asia in the grasslands, known as the Steppe, had a male mediated migration into the Indian Subcontinent. It is debated whether the term invasion is appropriate. But they migrated in waves. They were not literate but they used oral tradition. They spoke a precursor to Sanskrit, a language part of the Indo European language group. It is closely related to Latin. Sanskrit is also the precursor languages today of all of the languages of modern day India.

To clarify, just because these people were located in modern day Eastern Europe, does not mean they are identical to modern day Europeans today. They were probably darker, given fairer skin is rather recent in human history. They also only form a component of modern day European DNA, maxing at out at about 45% but falling much lower than that in many areas, especially the Basque region, a place where Indo European Languages are not even spoken.

These people, when they came to S Asia, literally searching for greener pastures, encountered an Indus Valley Civilization already in major decline. It is hypothesized that floods and food constraints but strain on the Indus peoples. These migrants from the Steppe brought horses, chariots, and iron weapons with them. They, in many senses, overpowered the Indus people, asserting themselves on top of the dominance hierarchy.

They brought with them the Rig Veda, the first of the Vedas of Hinduism. Later the Hinduism that developed however incorporated some of the principles from the conquered Indus People.

Establishment of caste

Caste and varna are effectively the same. As you can tell from above, the Indian people are a mix of three groups: the AASI, the Iran Mesolithic related HGs, and the Steppe people. Caste is thought to be established by those Steppe people who asserted themselves on top of the dominance hierarchy of a declining Indus people (mix of majority Iran Mesolithic related HGs and minority AASI peoples).

In doing so, they established a feudal system, one composed of 5 basic castes: Brahmin (priests) , Kshatriya (kings and warriors), Vaishya (merchants), Shudra (peasants), and outcastes. They put themselves on top. Initially, DNA evidence suggests it was a bit more meritocratic at first, with people moving up castes, but these castes very much stabilized about 2000 years ago.

Trends of Caste

All S Asians are fundamentally made of these 3 components: AASI, Iran Related Mesolithic HGs, and Steppe.

The most critical trends are the following. The Iran Mesolithic Hunter Gatherer component forms the majority of S Asian DNA. It does vary between groups but more in a geographic manner. Recall, these people form the majority of DNA of the Indus Valley people. The Indus Valley was in the NW of the subcontinent. The SE of the subcontinent is the furthest. So it makes sense that their ancestry peaks in the NW and gradually declines towards the SE.

On the other hand, the AASI ancestry is lowest in the NW and peaks in the SE, following a cline in that direction. Additionally, some of the AASI stayed in forests or isolated tribes, not mixing with either of the two groups, so those groups also tend to be AASI heavy. Those groups, when encountered by the already trimixed people, were designated as out castes, the lowest on the caste ladder.

Steppe people invaded in the NW and so it makes sense their ancestry peaks in the NW and declines as one would go SE.

The last trend is the most critical for understanding caste. Remember the Steppe people imposed themselves on top of the dominance hierarchy. Therefore, the more Steppe, the higher the caste tends to be. The more AASI, the lower the caste tends to be.
So the Steppe: AASI ratio is the most important for determining caste. But, once again, geography, as stated above also plays a role.

Caste and geography

The 5 castes are present, at varying quantities, in all places. But remember the geography plays a role. The AASI ancestry declines as one goes NW to SE and the opposite for the Steppe.

So a S Indian Brahmin (priest) may have equal Steppe ancestry compared to a N Indian Vaishya (merchant) caste person and that N Indian Vaishya may have the Steppe ancestry of some even more NW Indian Shudra (peasant) caste person. But the system is effectively racialized along the Steppe:AASI cline, especially in the context of a single state.

Steppe ancestry, averages 10-20% across the subcontinent. It is the lowest among tribals (sometime as low as 3%), who never really mixed and remained largely AASI with a solid component of Iran Mesolithic HG. It peaks in Brahmins (as low as high teens % in the South and as high as high 20s % in North) and also some herder groups in the NW. These herders groups, such as Jats and Rors, are a bit of a surprise. They don’t occupy a high place in the traditional caste system. But they did not mix with the AASI as much. It is hypothesized they lived on the NW fringes of S Asia and later migrated deeper into S Asia, probably also searching for greener pastures. Depending on the subgroup, their Steppe ancestry can average as high as 35%.

But as you can see, the majority of S Asian DNA is a combination of AASI+ Iranic Mesolithic HG, the combination seen in the Indus Valley People. A minority component, the Steppe DNA, effectively ranging from 3-35%, depending on peoples, is however the most important for understanding the last migration into the subcontinent and the caste system.

Dalits

Dalits are designated as the outcastes, the untouchables, the lowest of the low. They have high AASI ancestry. They have jobs like cleaning toilets. They did not, until recently, receive some degree of equity, though still imperfect, to better fight for through rights through the exercise of political agency.

Christians, Muslims, Sikhs

All these religions, in their texts, are against caste like systems. However, S Asians of caste who converted, wanted to keep their high caste privileges so they kept subtle markers, such as certain last names, to designate who converted from a high caste vs. low caste and discriminate that way.

Surnames are mentioned in religious scriptures. Dalits do not want to change their surnames. They get tremendous affirmative action benefits for educational and professional opportunities. In fact, some upper and middle castes are shrewdly trying to change their surnames to get Dalit affirmative action benefits.

Caste is not in official documents. The Indian Constitution OUTLAWED caste. Many intellectuals abhor it. But like all power structures lasting thousands of years, those in power don’t want to give it up. However, the current generation is changing and at a faster rate than those of the past. Progress is certainly being made and generally moving in the right direction. Of course hiccups, sometimes temporary episodes of even nasty ones, are present. And the Dalit people are still oppressed. But things are changing for the better.

Why don’t Indians get rid of caste?

Well, they are trying. Just like Americans are trying to get rid of racism. The caste system is fundamentally a religiously encoded feudal system that was racialized from its inception. It was reinforced by invaders, at times, as part of a divide and rule strategy, to more easily subjugate the Indian peoples.

Also, there is a ton of politics surrounding caste. Unscrupulous politicians turn people of a different castes against each other, in order to get votes.

Finally, upper caste people dominant all of the power spheres. Bollywood is an example. It is composed of upper caste people of the NW, fundamentally the most steppe populations. The Indian populations with the most ancient ancestry that is also shared with Europeans. Their looks are highly prized because of the legacy of the Steppe peoples, constant invaders from the West Asia (such as Mughals and Persians), and the British, who all happened to be lighter and more Caucasian peoples imposing themselves. Despite the fact that ONLY, the Steppe people, had a real DNA impact on the population, even among upper castes, because that component is most closely related to all the invading populations that came after it, this only further reinforced the phenotype air superiority surrounding, thus serving as a tool to further psychologically entrench and justify the caste system. Bollywood tends to love Steppe ancestry heavy people. The British reinforced a lot of racism with added layers, such as Martial Race Theory, where to combat other peoples of the subcontinent, they anointed the people of the NW, who also happen to be the most Steppe, the top of the racial hierarchy and the only ones most fit for military service. They also wanted to justify the Steppe Migration and assertion on top of the S Asian dominance hierarchy as justification for themselves to conquer and subjugate India because it was just history repeating it self, a history of a more dominant, part of the “natural order,” of a more Europid peoples, subjugating a darker native populace.

Lower caste peoples have fought back more and more. Their heroes, include the likes of Ambedkar. The current head of the Indian Space Agency is a lower caste man. Mayawati, a dalit woman, is a famous former chief minister of the most populous Indian state.

Phenotype

Upper caste people tend to be lighter and more caucasoid in appearance; however, geography plays a HUGE role. Once again, I give the example of myself. I am a middle caste N Indian, but I genetically cluster with Brahmin S Indians, and some Shudra (peasant caste) people further to the NW. I am about 20% of this Steppe DNA. Also, once again, all Indians have some Steppe DNA. So stuff like colored eyes randomly pops up in Indian children, even those of darker lower caste parents. However, of course, such phenomena, though uncommon for essentially all groups of S Asia, do occur more frequently among upper caste people.

As we have left the age of Kings, the two castes that dominant the most are Vaishya (merchant) and Brahmin (priest) castes in the space of controlling wealth and the media. Because of martial race theory, the NW people dominant the military more than their population would suggest. Some of the shudra (peasant) peoples of varying ancestries, such as Patels of Gujarat, Reddies of Andhra Pradesh, Jatts of Haryana, or Yadavs of Bihar, have dominated a lot of politics, just to shear numbers. They reap the benefit of majoritarian unity in a democratic system. They also own a lot of land. Land is a premium in a place as overcrowded as India. Dalits still do the lower level jobs.

India is highly corrupt and has a lot of nepotism. So that also hinders upward mobility. But once again, growth and liberalization, though ebbing and flowing with time, are noteworthy trends in the subcontinent over the last 25 years. This is lead to increased growth, more freedom, and more equity. There is still a long way to go and religious fundamentalism adds another layer of complexity to all of this. But that is a discussion for another day. What is important is that things are improving.

And I will leave with the following statement

“Nothing in Biology Makes Sense Except in the Light of Evolution” T. Dobzhansky

“Nothing in South Makes Sense Except in Light of the Steppe to AASI Ratio”
T. Warlock

PS. If you want to learn more of the ancient ancestries of S Asia, please read David Reich’s book “Who we are and how we got here”

Also, for scientific literature the following paper from Reich’s lab at Harvard (Narasimhan et al. 2018) is pretty good

biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/292581v1

Rose,

Varna and caste are different things. For example you can have Sudra varna with multiple castes in it ( like mangali (Barbers), chakali(washermen), kummari ( potters), golla (herders)). As you can see most of them are profession based. But they can also include castes that changed their profession overtime (Gowda) usually they are moving to farming.

Most confusing thing is Brahmins and Vysya are caste names and also varna names. But, note that Vysya caste is not the representative of entire Vysya varna. Same with Brahmins. Although this group has consistent practices, not all Brahmins inter-marry. There are distinct endogamous groups(ie castes) even within this varna. Nambothri Brahmins, saraswat Brahmins, Tamil Brahmins ( within them Iyers and Iyengars) etc.

There are four varnas (Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vysya and Sudra) and people outside this system (outcastes). There are many castes, ranging in hundreds at least. Some castes are common across ethno-linguistic divisions but some are pretty much geographically restricted. Most notably Brahmins are the common ones across all parts.

Brahmins, Kshatriyas, and Vysyas are “twice-born” and have special marker to distinguish from Sudras and outcasts. But vast majority of population is sudras.

Given multiple castes within Sudra, there is a caste hierarchy partly based on profession, class and wealth. For example, Reddys and Naidu castes were rulers of principalities in south, and hold lot of wealth and political power. But they are technically sudra as they don’t follow “twice-born” ceremonies. These are “forward castes”. You have middle castes with respectable professions like merchants, farmers. People with poor professions or deal with dirty things are usually “backward castes”(e.g. cobblers dealing with leather products, Palm-toddy makers dealing with alcohol products, butchers).

People who are outcasts also have castes like Mala, Madiga, Yanidi, Erukula etc. They deal with corpses, clean up of human feces, trapping rats and rodents etc. These are called “scheduled castes” or lumped under “Dalits” or older term “Harijans”. Under the name of cleanliness, historically these people were treated very poorly.

Indian government has affirmative action for backward and scheduled castes. This means, your birth certificate or government id would carry your caste name so that you can claim your reservations. Particularly for admission to public institutions and jobs. But also some other incentives like food rations and health benefits.

Indian Muslims and Christians also maintain caste in some parts of India. For example both Reddys and Mala converted
to Christianity. But Reddys still use their caste name at the end of their given name. (E.g. Late Y.S. Rajasehkar Reddy).

There is a tradition of having your caste name appended to your given name or sometimes your last name is a derivative of your caste profession. (E.g. Chaturvedi is supposedly someone who mastered four Vedas. Since only Brahmins studied Vedas, it is a fair inference that chaturvedi is a Brahmin name)

On changing your caste name, it is not a big deal if there wasn’t a government affirmative action associated with it. But also, same caste can be high or low based on economics and geography. E.g, Gowdas are landowners and forward caste in Karnataka but they are lumped with Ediga and are backward caste in Andhra Pradesh. Same goes for Kapu and Balija. Their status depends on their location and wealth and usually forward and middle castes. Balija are traders but have agitated in the past to be categorized as backward caste.

Caste lives because people are particular about who they marry. Even Malas don’t marry Madiga (have inter-caste rivalry) even though they are all treated as Dalits. The big deal is when forward and scheduled castes love marriages happen, then honour killings and power imbalance makes it worse for scheduled castes.

Some of the power trips of class and wealth get coded under caste. Some of the caste issues get snickered under skin colour, intelligence and cleanliness. You can’t stop humans creating social categories. But you can’t “get rid of caste” if there are legal consequences related to affirmative action.

Hope this helps.

@ rose The ans. by Mr. Thewarlock remaining true to his name i.e. ‘war’ inserted his own interpretation & ideological beliefs into the answers he has provided to your questions.

Instead of providing my response i would rather give you the discussions by imminent leftist Indian scholars engaging with this new data –

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N65Fj8WXKmA – Panel Discussion on ‘The Peoples of Early India: Origins, Migrations and Identities’

https://www.sbs.com.au/language/english/audio/arya-sanskrit-vedic-culture-is-not-the-foundation-source-of-indian-civilisation-tony-joseph – Tony Joseph discussing his interpretation of data in brief within 15 minutes.