This may be related to a phenomenon Razib and Omar and their guests observed in the last couple of podcasts: of academics and others on the left in western countries having (and expressing) a really dim view of Hinduism and Hindu civilization, even vis a vis Islam and Islamic civilization.
My guess is that whenever a colonial atrocity is pointed out, even with sufficient evidence, people automatically think of the caste system, untouchability, Sati, etc. at the back of their minds, and that makes them come up with excuses for the coloniser. (Almost no other religion or civilization seems to have so many negatives associated with it in the Western mind, Yoga and stuff notwithstanding.)
That’s what i talk about when i mention Orientalism or Western blind-spots. Glad that someone actually mentioned this in much more precise form.
This is doing 2 things –
1. Forcing sensible Hindus to go along with extreme Hindtvavadis as a tactic of assertion of Identity.
2. Forcing internal divide among Hindus –
a) Those who believe everything Hindutvavadis present – Extremists {Killers of Gauri Lankesh, Kalburgi etc.}
b) Who reject fantastical ideas of Hindutvavadis but are still forced to support them as they are the only voice that opposed the Western projections about Hindus since pre-colonial times while all other political representative groups gladly not only accepted Western Orientalist views but even perpetrated those views whenever they saw them politically useful & beneficial.
Hindus are misunderstood & misrepresented by almost all sides since others first started recognizing them with the term ‘Hindus’.
I would recommend ‘The Nay Science’ to everyone who want to understand the blind-spots of researchers & academia.
Deep Bhatnagar, should we invite Dr Joydeep Bagchee or Dr. Vishwa Adluri to Browncast?
https://swarajyamag.com/books/the-pseudoscience-of-indology-an-interview-with-joydeep-bagchee
Note that Prof Long and maybe Vamsee Juluri are in the process of being planned.
Yes plz. do // invite Dr Joydeep Bagchee or Dr. Vishwa Adluri to Browncast //
I am not interested in professor Long though as i don’t like religious scholars & inter-religious studies as i find them to be simply useless.
You are free to take a photo from my link, too.
Winston Churchill is the most responsible for the massive death of the Indians due to the famine in 1943. He then said: “I hate Indians. They are animals’ people with animals’ religion. They are themselves guilty of hunger because they breed like rabbits.”
INDIANS were for British the lower class, unworthy to white man, the second-order creatures, and acted like animals towards them during their centuries-old rule in the Indian subcontinent. The most terrible cases of human sadism, brutality and maltreatment and brutal killing were recorded in British India.
During the British colonial rule in British India (consisting of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka), on May 10, 1857, a mass uprising of the Hindu and Muslim population against the British authorities erupted in the city of Merut. Within days, the settlers soon conquered Delhi and large parts of northern India. The causes of the uprising were merciless exploitation and exploitation (work to death) by peasants and workers, robbed and beaten.
Then (1858), the British army in India launched a brutal anti-offensive to suppress a major uprising. In British history books this huge rebellion of the Indians is boldly portrayed as an ordinary war operation for the return of areas that have captured the insurrection. Millions of peasants who were then killed were involved in the rebellion. Albion’s code was: Indians are slaves to be killed.
\Almost no other religion or civilization seems to have so many negatives associated with it in the Western mind, Yoga and stuff \
True. That is because the west basically respects if not glorifies power, military power , brute power, a power that can harm and hurt them. India’s past or present does not project such an image.
That is why Chinese, Russian society is looked with fearful awe. Even Islam can bring down Twin Towers and subway suicide bombers. Anything with a potential or history of hurting them is looked at with some respect. India is not in that category.
VijayVan, I do not agree. Almost the entire animus against eastern philosophy comes from marxist post modernism. Most of the animus against Asians comes from marxist post modernism. The non left in America does not know much about eastern philosophy or Asia . . . but generally likes them. The non left tends to like whoever the marxist post modernists hate.
America use to have a deep culture. It is mostly gone now. The change in America over a short period of time is extraordinary.
Marxist post modernists control almost all if not all teacher education programs. Most K-12 teachers in America are heavily influenced by Marxism. Most of the K-12 curriculum in America is influenced by Marxism and Post Modernism.
I have asked many of my friends’ kids who are in K-12 about how affirmative greatly benefits caucasians over Asians. All of them are afraid to talk about it, let alone write about it. If they are accused of “white supremacy”, “racism”, “Nazism”, “Fascism”, bigotry, prejudice, imperialism, colonialism etc., they are afraid that anyone who googles their name will find out about it. They are afraid that they wont be able to get into college (since colleges will avoid “white supremacists.”)
Almost all Asian kids in America live in great fear. Almost none of them (unless they are cultural marxists or post modernists) are willing to think openly or share what they think. Many are ashamed of their parents, ethnicity, culture and religion.
In America Asians (including Chinese and Indians) are increasingly seen as powerful, smart, strong, privileged, oppressors, exploiters, hegemonic, What other explanation is there for their massive academic and moderate economic out-performance of caucasians and blacks other than the possibility that Asians practice “racism” and “hate” against caucasians and blacks?
Brown Cast will hopefully soon interview Vamsee Juluri (one of the only liberal arts academics in America who happens to be a practicing Hindu Buddhist Jain Sikh). He warns that 2nd generation Indian American children increasingly view eastern philosophy, India and their families with contempt. I think Vamsee is right.
Practitioners of eastern philosophy are losing the next generation. Not to other religions. But to anti theistic post modernist cultural marxists.
To be fair the same is happening to Christians and Jews.
VijayVan, African Americans are fighting marxism and post modernism too. Just see the deep emotion and emotional scars these five African Americans have:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzOApVTfT48
Especially see Glenn’s impassioned almost despondent plea in the last 6 minutes. He says it is getting worse.
He says that what is needed is:
—urgency
—agency (everyone is potentially powerful and wise)
—honesty (satyam vada)
Any black leader in America whe tries to help black Americans is viciously slandered by baizuo (caucasian intelligentsia) as a racist coon turnout uncle tom. Even President Obama’s mentorship initiative was so disparaged by the baizuo.
Just listen to anecdotes from their own lives. Listen to how 180 degrees different working class black American values and views are compared to the baizuo .
Africans are fighting a similar fight to the fight we are fighting.
This and other articles seem to create a fake “hindu” versus western, based on Bengal Famine, that neither exists nor is supported. In many ways, it reminds me of the ruse used by the islamic state to create a rift between western ideas/governmental sysytem and Islam to create a support structure for the Islamic state.
In contrast, such a difference does not exist between India and its people vis-a-vis western government and thought. The Indian government, law, education, finance system, industry are all based on the western model. The Indian people’s interest is to advance based on this system and philosophy, and are quite willing to separate religious and secular lives as two separate but equal systems. nothing in the Hindu or Indian philosophy is contra the western model, or the Indians can separate the two sufficiently that they can coexist in their minds.
A last note on the Bengal famine; there has been continuous reduction of famine frequency in India over the 50 years after Bengal famine of., predominantly, Congress rule. This was created by MSP, green revolution, infrastructure, FCI purchase and grain saving… all of which were government mandated. Those that argue extensively against socialism and government, will not credit the government when credit is due. This, to me, is just agitprop.
Vijay, European Enlightenment classical liberalism is heavily inspired by eastern philosophy, including Chaarvaaka. That is a reason why it works well in an Indian setting. Becoming more classically liberal is good for India.
What helps with famines is total factor productivity, product development, process innovation. How we get there does not matter as much. Indian government spending on these programs as a percentage of GDP was very low.
Sanathana Dharma also has a version of seperation of spirituality from state. “Brahmin” varna is also not suppose to be involved in Kshatriya and Vaishya functions (governance, courts, rule of law, security forces, administration, business, creativity in product development).
For me religion, spirituality, science, atheism, secularism are all extensions of the same thing. Why are they different? Difference complements, enriches and unifies us.
// The Indian government, law, education, finance system, industry are all based on the western model. The Indian people’s interest is to advance based on this system and philosophy, and are quite willing to separate religious and secular lives as two separate but equal systems. nothing in the Hindu or Indian philosophy is contra the western model, or the Indians can separate the two sufficiently that they can coexist in their minds. //
I have debunked this Eurocentric trope too many times, go & check my earlier responses why this argument that these models are Western or European are basically Orientalist narratives about global Human history.
Indian laws & government never accepted the principle of Individuality as the core as Western models did. They did this because their beliefs got challenged from the colonized subjects so to free themselves of theological baggage the Westerners developed the concept of Individuality that lead to renaissance.
The Education model is nothing more than an homogenization project of elites, schools do provide education but only to the extent that challenges only the upper layer of information since the most important source i.e. Knowledge creation is usually left unchallenged during school education & only gets challenged {that too only from certain perspectives e.g. Marxism, critical theory etc. which are all forged based upon Western experience} partially.
Finance & Industry –
Depends upon how you are studying these & from which time-period because Indic merchants did business with almost all great empires since ancient times. Their modern forms came into effect only after world war 2 so obviously they were forged by victors of those wars.
The claim to differentiate between Religious & secular is problematic since Indians always gave preference to regional practices over ‘Hindu laws’ instead they allowed each region to develop their practices by mixing matching & changing the laws to the regions preferences.
For e.g. –
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apastamba_Dharmasutra
Westerners never had such a diverse legal system & so they had to develop “Secularism” since they did not experienced the nature & kind of debates which existed in India since ancient times. They were not used to accept multiple viewpoints at the same time unlike Indic traditions that accepted multiplicity of views leading to the formation of ideas like Madhyamika, Two truths doctrine, Anektavad {Jain} & all Hindu texts mentions lots of variations according to time, place etc. and presents similar ideas of multiplicity of views as valid source of inquiry e.g. Adaivita vedanta, Nyaya etc.
Basically Indic system was self critical unlike Western one which needs to be acknowledged & it affected the Abrahamic beliefs immensely to modernize them into their modern ‘Secular forms’.
https://www.academia.edu/34695452/From_Christian_Apologetics_to_Deism_Libertine_Readings_of_Hinduism_1650_1730
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barmakids
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Buddhism#14th_century
https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=37&ved=2ahUKEwif0O7upMXgAhUDE7wKHZ1lDVI4HhAWMAZ6BAgEEAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Frindas.ryukoku.ac.jp%2Fenglish%2Foutcome%2Fupfile%2FRINDAS%2520Series%2520of%2520Working%2520Paper%2520Traditonal%2520Indian%2520Thoughts13.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2bwuSwpJNhCFbWBn8BSlAM
Also read –
Jesuit Orientalism about East –
https://cnrs.academia.edu/InesZupanov
https://icrea.academia.edu/JoanPauRubiés
https://otago.academia.edu/WillSweetman
Hinduism {as legal tradition} –
https://utexas.academia.edu/DonaldRDavisJr
https://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin
What you forgot to mention – Humane treatment of captured enemies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_war_theory – Check India
https://www.e-ir.info/2016/08/25/a-just-cause-the-eastern-interpretation-of-just-war-theory/
The need is to acknowledge the role of Hindus & their contributions in modern world which is not only denied but even contested to separate Hindus from everything by 2 ways –
1. Differentiating Indic traditions between Aryans as Hindu ritualistic caste system vis a vis Indigenous Shramanic traditions as the sole source of everything good Indic traditions offer like Yoga, Ayurveda, Maths etc. – Represents Hinduism on Indian subcontinent.
2. The Orientalist views that have deeply sowed into academia about Hinduism which that Hinduism is all about Caste, Sati etc. – Represents Hinduism at global stage.