https://youtu.be/QYKxr7gW8Ho?t=15m
Swara Bhaskar doubles down on her Pakistan comments that Indians shouldn’t care what the unsecular failing Pak state does.
I don’t have an opinion on her particular remarks but Pakistan was wrong to ban Veere di Wedding.
Otherwise I agree with Rajeev Masand’s masterful review where he gave it a 2 out of 5 though V&I agree it should be a 3.
Ps: To access the videos, please click on the link. For the first link I’ve pasted the 15minute mark where Pakistan gets brought up. The rest of the interview is interesting as well.
PPs: Urwa Hocane (pronounced as Hossein) defends Pak’s honour here and here. The tweet wars between the two actresses are a lot more sexier than the ones at BP.
PPPs: I’m trying to stay away from the interminable Indo-Pak wars so this will be a moderated thread. The only rule is please avoid ad hominem attacks.
Pakistan banned this movie because of the vulgarity of the dialogue. I am sorry, but Pakistani women (outside of a few posh enclaves in Lahore and Karachi) do not speak like this. Or at least, they should not speak like this in public (what people do in their own homes cannot be controlled). Pakistan is an “Islamic Republic” and our cultural sensitivities are such that our women cannot be permitted to talk about free sex or use such bad language.
I watched the trailer of this movie to give it a chance. After approximately one minute, I had to turn it off, I was so disgusted by the bad language used by so-called “ladies”.
As for calling Pakistan a “failing” state, I think Swara Bhaskar should stick to acting. Her political commentary is not very good. Though since she also savaged “Padmavaat”, perhaps she is an equal opportunity hater.
Pakistan will always be a backward country unless it embraces liberalism.
Yes a strong component of freedom is to speak and act like how you want in society..
In that sense there is a divergence between the two countries..
It’s not going to embrace liberalism. It’s an “Islamic Republic”. All Laws are subservient to Quran and Sunnah. It’s right there in the Objectives Resolution.
Asking anything else from Pakistan is a pipe dream. Thank god I have foreign citizenship.
As for divergence between the two countries, India has hardly embraced “liberalism”. Maybe Bollywood has. But the ruling regime in Delhi cannot be called liberal under any reasonable definition of liberalism. South Asia is not the most liberal part of the world.
These woman seem amazingly smart and intelligent. Bharatiya Desi (Pakistanis included) woman are might impressive. Of course you already know this Zack. You get V greatness daily. The interviewer is very entertaining.
I think India should care about Pakistanis and try to help Pakistanis to the degree possible. Including through easing Visas for Pakistanis to visit India, live in India, or get a pathway to Indian citizenship.
Please for the love of god leave us alone. We can handle our own country. This “big brother” attitude is very patronizing. The day the Government of Pakistan asks the Government of India for help would be a different matter, but we would rather die than ask you for help.
Kabir, do you support India:
-increasing the number of student, work, business, tourist, religious visas for Pakistanis?
-making it easier for Pakistanis to get Indian citizenship over the long run?
-reducing tariffs and other barriers to Pakistani exports to India?
-making it easier for Pakistanis to invest in India, conduct business in India and own Indian assets?
-funding Pakistani K-12 education (suspect you would find this controversial)?
If not why not?
Does anyone other than Kabir disagree with this?
Kabir, what are your thoughts on the current American crime wave and the large numbers of Asian Americans being harmed by it?:
http://www.brownpundits.com/2018/06/04/is-american-culture-sharply-increasing-crime/
It’s foolish for India to allow large number of Pak nationals becoming it’s citizens.
Yes I agree with you.
This would be seen as tremendous interference in Pakistan’s internal affairs. Visas should be made easier. People to People contact should be made easier.
The rest of the stuff doesn’t happen between two countries which are disputing territory. That is just reality.
Pakistani religious minorities should have recourse to foreign citizenship however – what’s happened to the Ahmadis is a complete disgrace.
They do seek asylum in the West. India under Modi wants to give Pakistani Hindus (only Hindus) a path way to citizenship. That reflects Modi seeing India as a “Hindu homeland”. It’s not out of any love for Pakistan.
Anan
India can’t do won’t do anything unilaterally, it has to be synchronised, proportional agreed steps on both sides. However normalisation is far, perhaps a generation or two when Pakistan has been sucked dry and ruined by it’s military rulers.
Is your last sentence a fact or an opinion?
Prediction
But predictions need to be based on some factual analysis?
@Zack Zavid
“But predictions need to be based on some factual analysis?”
Yes, many have analysed the facts. The fact is Pakistan is a rentier state which ‘sells’ it’s geopolitical placement to the highest bidder and trying to survive.
https://www.dawn.com/news/1359282/rentier-state
http://carnegieendowment.org/2016/04/19/pakistan-at-crossroads-pub-63422
It’s ruling elite i.e military , is ideologically driven and Kashmir is just an excuse. They have been so for the last 60 years and will continue to be so since there is no good reason reward/punishment to change course.
About ‘Pakistan is too important to fail’ myth , it is just that – a myth . Like a person holding a gun to his own head and trying to blackmail others into his bidding to save his life. It does not impress any country. After taking precautions, others may let him shoot himself.
So far Pakistan has been using the US engagements in Asia during the Cold War, and the War on Terror for the last 15 years to extract benefits from the US. The US is wisening up to that, it’s geopolitical interest and tactics will change and Pakistan will be left in the lurch. That is why Pakistan is cultivating China as an ‘all weather’ friend. It does not mind Baluchistan exploited to the hilt by China and this is going to incense Baluchis and keep Baluchis on the boil. Afghanistan has never accepted Pakistan in the present borders from 1947 , and when the Taliban dust settles down that can become another source of tension
The ‘jihadi resources’ to annoy and needle India and Afghanistan is only going bite itself more and more
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/pakistan/2018-01-08/pakistan-and-myth-too-dangerous-fail
http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/07/03/pakistan-cant-afford-chinas-friendship/
https://warontherocks.com/2017/06/pakistans-anxieties-are-incurable-so-stop-trying-to-cure-them/
All this will take a few decades when the USA or China or Saudi Arabia have no interests in Pakistan .
Even though anyone can see how misformed Pakistan was in 1947, with 2 wings separated by the self-chosen enemy for 1000 miles, it took 25 years to fruition i.e. unravel.
The Durand Line is never changing and the Afghans can’t do a single thing about it. We have nuclear weapons and an strong Army that will protect the current borders of Pakistan.
Much as it may be your wet dream to see Pakistan destroyed, it will not happen. Sorry.
Pakistan will be just fine, thanks. CPEC is a big deal. Plus, we are quite good at managing crises, even though it sometimes looks to outsiders that we are falling apart. I also don’t think the US (or any other country) is going to let a nuclear-armed Muslim nation fall apart.
Anan,
I support India allowing more Pakistanis to visit India as tourists. Pakistan should also allow Hindus and Sikhs to visit their religious sites located in our Islamic Republic. I believe we already allow Indian Muslims to come and see their families in Pakistan. For the rest of it, absolutely not. Why should Pakistanis get Indian citizenship? We have a perfectly good country and we separated from India for a reason. We have our own identity. If Pakistanis got Indian citizenship, it would negate the reason for the existence of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. The Nehru-Liaqat Pact of the 1950s specifically imposed a cap on the time period that people could migrate to the other country and get citizenship. However, Indian Muslim women who marry into Pakistani families (there are some in my extended family) still get Pakistani citizenship through their husbands. Modi wants to give Indian citizenship to Pakistani Hindus but clearly not to Pakistani Muslims.
We will not have better relations until the elephant in the room–the disputed status of Jammu and Kashmir– is resolved. Sorry but that’s the reality. I am of Kashmiri Muslim origin and you can imagine I have very strong feelings about this.
I agree
I’m glad to know I am not insane.
Just a small trivia(got reminded from the whole citizenship thing), I think till the 50-60s you could actually keep both India and Pakistan citizenship. Bhutto did not give up his Indian citizenship and was hedging his bets on where he would be more successful as a politician. Its only when it came up in Pakistan Parliament that he was shamed and he gave up his Indian citizenship. (Something to that effect)
I thought that it was decided in the Nehru-Liaqat Pact (Which was early 1950s). But I could be wrong.
Saurav, dual Pakistani Indian citizenship would be a great idea. Hope it becomes more common again.
Dual Indian and Pakistani citizenship is a terrible idea. One cannot hold citizenship of two enemy states at once. You have to pick a side. The Nehru-Liaqat pact was the basis of normalization after Partition, and it made the rules for citizenship very clear.
ab na chhodayNgay tujhay, dam dama dam,
tunay kya samjha hay hamayN, dam dama dam,
pajamay mayN hai toofan bhara, dam dama dam,
bas kar suara jan zara, dam dama dam…
(Lyrics copyright owned by Jaggu Jangjoo. Do not reproduce.)
The normalisation of relations between the two countries will happen when the Almighty wills it so.
I wish the entire comity of South Asian nations including Pakistan and Afghanistan function as one block similar to EU but obviously not turn into an object of hate for member nations as EU has become.
But that will take time.
Let us keep in mind that there are a very large no of truly pathetic people on both sides of the border. You can find them spouting all sorts of filth for the other country or religion for no good reason. I would certainly not write or utter such stuff no matter how provoked I m. And I m just an ordinary person. So one can imagine the absolute base level of these individuals. Such people can be easily be triggered to commit violence against the other group. Both sides have such feckless people in abundance. There is a good reason why Mahatma Gandhi failed while Jinnah succeeded (atleast for the time being). And many of the leaders come from within such toxic environments.
So one should be positive & realistic but not romanticise the whole thing.
As for the movie and the Pakistan bashing by Bhaskar, I care little for such movies. There is no good reason to show vulgarity and indecency in movies. It really does not earn you a few extra bucks. Those who like & can connect with Indian movies outside the Indian diaspora are usually people from the subcontinent and beyond them those from SE Asia, the Middle East and Africa. These people are not drawn to Indian movies for the skin show or abusive and filthy language. They watch it since they are attracted to the unique features of Indian culture that Indian
Movies exhibit through the dress, music, human relationships etc. So Indian movie makers should know what attracts people to their movies. They should stop trying to ape the West. The West cares little for Indian movies and the people of European ethnicity are least likely to watch our movies.
As for Swara Bhaskar, she should learn to keep her mouth shut. People of Pakistan like Indian movie stars so there is no harm to respecting their sentiments and being polite.
Glad someone agrees with me that this movie was unnecessarily vulgar! Actually, Nandini Ramnath on Scroll.in said the same thing.
As for South Asia ever becoming like the EU, it sounds good but it’s not going to happen. India and Pakistan hate each other way too much. Also just as the EU basically has to take dictation from Berlin, a South Asian version would have to take dictation from Delhi. Obviously, no country except India wants that.
I watched the above video for six minutes, got nothing out of it and stopped.
Regarding vulgarity, bad words, that too by women is all art. That is what art is supposed to do by pushing the envelope. This is a barometer of societal norms. There was a time India used to ban a lot of Hollywood movies for nudity and indecency. They have to cut out half the length of the movie to be released. Those days changed.
India and Pakistan are different. We are a Muslim country. Our women cannot be encouraged to talk about sex in public or be vulgar. Cultural sensitivities and all that. Even our men should not be vulgar in public. Of course, vulgarity is subjective. But the Censor Board took a call and that is what they decided.
Swara Bhaskar’s father is a well known defence and national security writer/talking head (ex-Navy commodore), and her mother is a professor of cinema studies at JNU, having taught at NYU in the past it seems. Swara herself is quite academically accomplished for a bollywood actress. Not that she said anything particularly nuanced, found it to be interesting background context. I’m surprised by how often these south asian academic/literary couples produce offspring with entertainment industry looks.
exact; both Swara and Shikha are “deeper” than the Kapoor girls..
As long as you agree the Kapoor girls are royalty.
Punjabi Hindus are the jews of India
As in the “chosen people”?
Their relationship to Bollywood is like the Jewish is to Hollywood perhaps. More broadly, the mercantile Hindus of Northwest India in aggregate are like the Jews. Punjabis and sindhis are like the reformed, marwaris are like the Orthodox.
If Punjabi Hindus are the “chosen people” of India, Punjabi Muslims are the “chosen people” of Pakistan. Go Punjabis!
Erm sure 🙂
Punjabi hindus are not just dominant in movie industry but they dominate the Hotel business as well , and they are minority in their own province. Thats what make them different from Punjabi muslims.
Punjabi Muslims run the entire country of Pakistan. They (we) make up the bulk of the Army and the bureaucracy. Punjab has the most seats in the National Assembly, because seats are based on population and Punjab has 110 of the country’s 210 million people. There is a long standing call to make South Punjab (Multan) a separate province but the Lahore-based Punjab Assembly has to approve that and they never will so it’s a moot point.